1 hour ago, Stevel said:

OLIVE!

I was in my teens watching the John/Olive relationship.  We'd smoke some "pot" and watch AW.

The denouement of that relationship came as no surprise, with Olive, a great B word character, wiping her face of John Randolph's slobbery kisses.  Pat had been so genteel and introspective in in comparison. 

When we saw poor John, accidentally, shoot Evan Webster, and listened to Olive freak out over the ending credits we turned to stone. 

I was all set to laugh at John saying  OLIVE! like Popeye. 

But the whole thing was scary and creepy, and the background music was like nothing I had ever heard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I loved Olive!  And it was such a bad decision to write her into a corner, necessitating her being written-off the show.  

In 1979 AW desperately needed a long-term female trouble-maker like Olive, and they should have kept Olive on the canvas.  Both Rachel and Liz Matthews had been more-or-less reformed and de-fanged.  And Iris was on her way out -- with McKenzie's lengthy absences and then her eventual move to TEXAS.  It would have been magic to keep Olive as a relevant (but believable) villainess, causing trouble for both the Matthews and Cory families for years into the future.  But I guess Lemay and Rauch weren't forward-thinking enough to realize Olive's value to the future of AW.  Or maybe they didn't care...

Such a shame.  Jennifer Leak was wonderful in that role.   

1 hour ago, Stevel said:

I was all set to laugh at John saying  OLIVE! like Popeye. 

 

Oleeve! Oleeve!  LOL. I never understood why Michael Ryan (John Randolph) pronounced Olive's name that way. Nor why the directors allowed him to continue it.  It was ridiculous, and made the otherwise dignified John seem like an idiot.  Oleeve!  Oleeve!  What the Hell??

Agree Tishy. Olive as the town b%$÷@ had so many possibilities. Especially living in that crazy house John Randolph built for her. And poor John didn't need to die. 

Kill Dan Shearer instead. 

I liked how Liz was softened but was still a force of meddlesome family/friends  presence.  There was a much later scene when Mac calls her out about her gossiping and poor old lonely Liz  explains how she has no one but her relatives and her job.

Of course Mac, everyone's father figure, gives her a pat on the head.

 

On 9/28/2025 at 10:35 AM, j swift said:

I tend to reject conspiracy theories about network vendettas against certain families or histories. I don’t buy that every choice was part of some grand anti-Matthews agenda. At the time, these decisions were reactive—based on ratings, contracts, and shifting story needs. Sure, in hindsight we can trace patterns, but interpreting them as intentional strategy implies a level of planning that’s never been substantiated.

 

Interesting perspective. But I don't think it was as much as a deliberate vendetta than the misguided belief that something new is always better. 

Writers/producers thinking their stories and characters will be the solution. Of course, there is the underlying notion that change always equals improvement.

How many times have we seen in business, new bigwigs coming in with big changes that they claim is the right course to take , only to be proved wrong.

In soaps the situation is worse when a show is low rating. Hence the constant overhauls at AW. 

That Gillian Spencer/Le Soleil story was a plot that could have been impose on any characters on any show. There didn't seem to be an attempt to look at what the underlying problems were and what was in place when the show was successful eg the Nixon and Lamay eras.

11 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Interesting perspective. But I don't think it was as much as a deliberate vendetta than the misguided belief that something new is always better. 

Writers/producers thinking their stories and characters will be the solution. Of course, there is the underlying notion that change always equals improvement.

How many times have we seen in business, new bigwigs coming in with big changes that they claim is the right course to take , only to be proved wrong.

In soaps the situation is worse when a show is low rating. Hence the constant overhauls at AW. 

That Gillian Spencer/Le Soleil story was a plot that could have been impose on any characters on any show. There didn't seem to be an attempt to look at what the underlying problems were and what was in place when the show was successful eg the Nixon and Lamay eras.

Absolutely agree that they decide to make sweeping changes because they want to fix the show. I think there are two main reasons why they don't go back to what was successful in the past: one, they look at other shows that are currently successful because they know that the external environment  (more women working outside the home, VCRs, etc) has changed; and two, they have their own ideas and I daresay limitations as to what inspires them. I don't know enough about AMC to know whether Le Soleil as a glamorous spa was something that Gillian Spencer might have conceived of because it fit with Pine Valley so that when she came to work on AW she used that basis. There has been a fair amount of discussion in here about how Michael Malone pulled things from his 13 Bourbon Street bible, and Margaret de Priest's penchant for international supervillains and serial killers, and the similarities between Agnes Nixon's early Rachel and Erica Kane. AW also tried the route of hiring a playwright to replicate the Lemay magic with  Corinne Jacker. 

ETA: Even though I was using the present tense I was thinking about the 1980s when I mentioned VCRs etc. 

Edited September 29Sep 29 by Xanthe

Apologies if this has already been discussed but I haven’t visited this thread in awhile.

It’s the 40th anniversary of the debut of 227, and saw a mention of Jackee’s stint on Another World as Lily Mason from ‘83-86.

Does anyone remember her time on the show? What was her story? Was she a sporadic recurring character, or more of a constant presence, on contract?

Was she really on until ‘86? I think 227 started filming in summer ‘85 in LA, and AW filmed in NYC.

In 1981, the show did to try to strengthen the Matthews family by bringing back both Sally (played by Jennifer Runyon) and Alice (a recast).. and having them interacting with Jim, Liz, Pat, and Marianne.   While Sally seemed accepted and focused on, Alice struggled with being played by two lackluster recasts over an 18 month period before being written off again in the fall of 1982.

However.. Pat and Marianne were written off in early 1982, the actor that played Jim either passed away or was going to pass away so he stopped airing, and in their place was the arrival of an adopted grand-daughter of Liz (Julia).  While Julia/Sally had some interactions as 2nd cousins.. their mom's weren't on the canvas for very long (Alice leaving again in the fall of 1982 and Susan only coming back for a brief visit in late 1982).

The last attempt at saving the Matthews was in 1984 with OG Alice coming back in May 1984... but due to the cluelessness of the writers.. she was basically a talk to for Sally/Caitlin, had a backburner romance with a guy, and hardly interacted with Mac/Rachel until she was close to being written off.

So by the time 1986 rolled around and Depriest was bought in to refocus the show... I couldn't blame her for focusing the show around the Mckinnons, Cory's, and Love's because those were three families being featured with only Liz and Sally left.  And with Sally being played by a recast that fans didn't like and Liz being supporting... I understood why Depriest opted to just de-emphasize them totally (though  killing Sally off was not a smart idea in retrospect).

While I don't think it was a network mandate to get rid of the Matthews, I think it was due to a constant rotation of writers that didn't understand the family's place on the show and the attempts in the first half of the 80s didn't result in any big impact on the canvas nor ratings.

1 hour ago, yrfan1983 said:

Apologies if this has already been discussed but I haven’t visited this thread in awhile.

It’s the 40th anniversary of the debut of 227, and saw a mention of Jackee’s stint on Another World as Lily Mason from ‘83-86.

Does anyone remember her time on the show? What was her story? Was she a sporadic recurring character, or more of a constant presence, on contract?

Was she really on until ‘86? I think 227 started filming in summer ‘85 in LA, and AW filmed in NYC.

Lily was around somewhat regularly until the summer of 1985 when there started to be references to her being out of town a lot. The AWHP daily synopses for 1985 mention her winning a trip to Canada and I think there are also points where they say she is touring for her singing career. She drops in occasionally -- I think she came by for Felicia's wedding to Zane -- but not often. And when 227 was a hit she never came back.

Lily was introduced as Thomasina's biological Aunt and Quinn needed to contact her in order to adopt Thomasina. Lily was working as a prostitute but she got out of that life and made a respectable living. I remember her working at Leo Mars' club and I think she worked on Felicia's TV show. She was friends with Henrietta  as well as Felicia's set. She dated Carter's father Grant briefly but he broke up with her after she admitted her Past as a prostitute to him. She didn't really have a main story of her own, she was mostly supporting.

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

While I don't think it was a network mandate to get rid of the Matthews, I think it was due to a constant rotation of writers that didn't understand the family's place on the show and the attempts in the first half of the 80s didn't result in any big impact on the canvas nor ratings.

I wonder whether the Matthews were not recognized as a core family after a certain point not just because so many characters had been written out but also because so many of the characters had taken their husbands' surnames. Susan and Julia used Shearer. Pat and her children were Randolphs. I don't recall whether Alice went by Frame in her 1984 return but Sally certainly was Frame and was using Ewing when she died. 

8 hours ago, Xanthe said:

Lily was around somewhat regularly until the summer of 1985 when there started to be references to her being out of town a lot. The AWHP daily synopses for 1985 mention her winning a trip to Canada and I think there are also points where they say she is touring for her singing career. She drops in occasionally -- I think she came by for Felicia's wedding to Zane -- but not often. And when 227 was a hit she never came back.

Lily was introduced as Thomasina's biological Aunt and Quinn needed to contact her in order to adopt Thomasina. Lily was working as a prostitute but she got out of that life and made a respectable living. I remember her working at Leo Mars' club and I think she worked on Felicia's TV show. She was friends with Henrietta  as well as Felicia's set. She dated Carter's father Grant briefly but he broke up with her after she admitted her Past as a prostitute to him. She didn't really have a main story of her own, she was mostly supporting.

Thank you!

If you think about it, Josie was the last remaining Matthews on the show (despite her keeping the surname "Watts")

When they re-introduced the character with Amy Carlson, TPTB should've just had her with a new surname "Matthews" and not explain the change. Then there would still be one remaining character with the surbame Matthews on the show until the bitter end

11 hours ago, Xanthe said:

I wonder whether the Matthews were not recognized as a core family after a certain point not just because so many characters had been written out but also because so many of the characters had taken their husbands' surnames. Susan and Julia used Shearer. Pat and her children were Randolphs. I don't recall whether Alice went by Frame in her 1984 return but Sally certainly was Frame and was using Ewing when she died

That reminds me of DOOL with the Hortons. Tommy only had a daughter, Mickey was sterile and then adopted a daughter and only Bill was capable of passing on the Horton name. They, for some reason, refuse to bring Mike back and they've largely ignored the existence of Jeremy. And Lucas only had a son who was gay. Even with him being gay, he had a child but, even then, it was a daughter! I don't know if it's lack of foresight or what but the show is less and less about the Hortons simply because there aren't any "Hortons" left. Maybe biologically but the name is dying out. Although AW really seemed to want to just axe the Matthews family entirely. 

14 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

That reminds me of DOOL with the Hortons. Tommy only had a daughter, Mickey was sterile and then adopted a daughter and only Bill was capable of passing on the Horton name. They, for some reason, refuse to bring Mike back and they've largely ignored the existence of Jeremy. And Lucas only had a son who was gay. Even with him being gay, he had a child but, even then, it was a daughter! I don't know if it's lack of foresight or what but the show is less and less about the Hortons simply because there aren't any "Hortons" left. Maybe biologically but the name is dying out. Although AW really seemed to want to just axe the Matthews family entirely. 

Jeremy returns this week!

33 minutes ago, Bright Eyes said:

Jeremy returns this week!

Really! That's great. I'll have to tune in once again. Thanks for the heads up. 

1 hour ago, Bright Eyes said:

Jeremy returns this week!

Has it been announced who is playing Jeremy?

 

17 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

Has it been announced who is playing Jeremy?

 

Not officially, but pretty sure it's Michael Roark, who had a stint on Y&R.