5 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

And regarding the mention on AWHP that indicates Cory Publishing began in 1964 -- that information is retcon to go along with what was said on the show at the time of the 25th anniversary week.  Eddie makes clear that whenever there is a lack of continuity with historical facts, he always leans toward the most recent revision, not the historical.  And I can understand why he does that.   

But when Mac moved his company headquarters from NYC to Bay City in 1975 (Lemay's Cory origin story), Mac talked frequently about how he had inherited Cory Publishing from his father, and even implied it was started by an even earlier generation of Corys. Mac was not a self-made man. The Cory's had been old-money New Yorkers. So the idea that Cory Publishing was literally started in 1964 is rather silly.  For example, Iris would have been an adult with a young son in 1964. And how old would Mac have been in 1964?  At least mid-40s, I'd suggest.   

Not attempting to argue here.  Just pointing out some issues with continuity regarding Cory Publishing 25th anniversary taking place in 1989.  To a detail-oriented person, it just doesn't add-up.

The continuity would have been so much better if producers, writers, etc. had just done there homework.

In a 1979 episode, Cory Publishing held its 21st annual Board meeting, which means that, back then, the company was founded in 1958 lol

re: the big storyline for Mac. From what Kale Browne and Alice Barrett Mitchell said, Watson was preparing himself for the big storyline so the storyline had not happened yet. This might explain what Timmins was promised versus what came to fruition. I am less critical of the Red Swan storyline because of the circumstances (Watson's death), but they could have come up with something better that had a payoff. That tended to be Swajeski's M.O.: lots of buildup with poor follow through. They lost Watson, RKK, and Rambo in the middle of major storylines, and they never seemed to recover especially in the first two cases. In my opinion, the character of Grant was ruined by Rambo leaving in the third case.

 

 

3 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

The continuity would have been so much better if producers, writers, etc. had just done there homework.

In a 1979 episode, Cory Publishing held its 21st annual Board meeting, which means that, back then, the company was founded in 1958 lol

I had forgotten that bit of information.  But even that episode was written after Lemay had left AW, and was itself  a retcon, and historically inaccurate according to Mac's previous comments about his company.  Still, it would have been more believable than 1964.

You know, all AW needed was a big reason to celebrate the show's 25th anniversary.  Whatever the characters celebrated in the scripts did not need to the be literally the 25th of anything.  For example, in 1986 ATWT celebrated the show's 30th anniversary with a week of special episodes celebrating the 50th wedding anniversary of Chris and Nancy. And that worked perfectly.   

So maybe to celebrate Another World's 25th anniversary of broadcasting in 1989, the characters should have celebrated the 50th anniversary of Cory Publishing.  Or even the 100th anniversary of Cory Publishing.  Either would have made a lot more sense and would have avoided some big errors in historical continuity.   

19 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

The Cory Publishing anniversary episodes were taping less than week after Watson died.  And it was more an event, less a storyline (similar to ATWT 30th anniversary week in 1986).  

Okay, that's not something that we know. Corporations often leave a wide interpretation of dates when they plan something like what I recall being described, which was definitely a storyline, not an event. I'm also not suggesting that the Cory anniversary would've been the only thing that was written about. 

19 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

And regarding the mention on AWHP that indicates Cory Publishing began in 1964 -- that information is retcon to go along with what was said on the show at the time of the 25th anniversary week.  Eddie makes clear that whenever there is a lack of continuity with historical facts, he always leans toward the most recent revision, not the historical.  And I can understand why he does that.   

Yes, I know that there is a certain arbitrariness to declaring this the 25th anniversary, yet I believe it is what they did. And, I don't think it's strange in soap terms. 

19 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

But when Mac moved his company headquarters from NYC to Bay City in 1975 (Lemay's Cory origin story), Mac talked frequently about how he had inherited Cory Publishing from his father, and even implied it was started by an even earlier generation of Corys. Mac was not a self-made man. The Cory's had been old-money New Yorkers. So the idea that Cory Publishing was literally started in 1964 is rather silly.  For example, Iris would have been an adult with a young son in 1964. And how old would Mac have been in 1964?  At least mid-40s, I'd suggest.   

I just do not see an issue with their having a big do on the anniversary of Cory Publishing beginning to get underway & to be a success as of its beginning in Bay City. We don't really care about what happened with it before, do we?

19 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

Not attempting to argue here.  Just pointing out some issues with continuity regarding Cory Publishing 25th anniversary taking place in 1989.  To a detail-oriented person, it just doesn't add-up.   Or course, we are all free to believe whatever we wish.    

Well, you're not attempting to argue, you are actually arguing. But, why not? We're here to talk. Comparing different thoughts & perspectives is just natural. Isn't it?

And, as far as the interview with Swajeski, if in fact the big deal was the Red Swan I for one am automatically deflated!!!

And, if we didn't know that Mac was not a self-made man yet, we will find it out when we have our San Cristoblah turn which if I recall it correctly was about whether or not Mac swindled Ian's father & Carl's father. 

11 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

I had forgotten that bit of information.  But even that episode was written after Lemay had left AW, and was itself  a retcon, and historically inaccurate according to Mac's previous comments about his company.  Still, it would have been more believable than 1964.

You know, all AW needed was a big reason to celebrate the show's 25th anniversary.  Whatever the characters celebrated in the scripts did not need to the be literally the 25th of anything.  For example, in 1986 ATWT celebrated the show's 30th anniversary with a week of special episodes celebrating the 50th wedding anniversary of Chris and Nancy. And that worked perfectly.   

So maybe to celebrate Another World's 25th anniversary of broadcasting in 1989, the characters should have celebrated the 50th anniversary of Cory Publishing.  Or even the 100th anniversary of Cory Publishing.  Either would have made a lot more sense and would have avoided some big errors in historical continuity.   

I also read recently about the late 50s. 

I also agree that tying it strictly to 25 was not smart, & was off!

1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I just do not see an issue with their having a big do on the anniversary of Cory Publishing beginning to get underway & to be a success as of its beginning in Bay City. We don't really care about what happened with it before, do we?

I certainly do.

1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

And, as far as the interview with Swajeski, if in fact the big deal was the Red Swan I for one am automatically deflated!!!

Oh Lordy!! No doubt, deflated...  When I read that, it finally confirmed that woman was not a good successor to Harding Lemay. The fact that she went forward with a storyline, after her leading man was dead, makes me shake my head and sweat profusely.  Dear God in Heaven...

I give Swajeski some leeway because losing Watson was such a blow and if the storyline was as big as Mitchell and Browne indicate, it was not the Red Swan we got. The Red Swan story might have been a portion of the story. As I wrote above, my problem with Swajeski was her follow through and that the payoff was simply not there at the end of the Red Swan nonsense.  That she had control over and she had time to course correct.

32 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I give Swajeski some leeway because losing Watson was such a blow and if the storyline was as big as Mitchell and Browne indicate, it was not the Red Swan we got. The Red Swan story might have been a portion of the story. As I wrote above, my problem with Swajeski was her follow through and that the payoff was simply not there at the end of the Red Swan nonsense.  That she had control over and she had time to course correct.

Hmm. . .  Many of the characters she created were stereotypes.  Frankie Frame - wide-eyed psychic; Derek Dane - Beauty and the Beast; Lucas - mobster; Ken Jordan - Indiana Jones; Dennis Wheeler (not created by Swajeski) brought back as a race-car driving rich alpha-man, etc, etc...    Did Swajeski create even one believable character, who did not start as a stereotype??

2 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

The continuity would have been so much better if producers, writers, etc. had just done there homework.

In a 1979 episode, Cory Publishing held its 21st annual Board meeting, which means that, back then, the company was founded in 1958 lol

On the one hand we can't really put too much weight on any date in a soap. Time just isn't moving at a logical pace. Some annual holidays like Christmas line up with airdates, but children age rapidly and adults age slowly within the storyline. So I wasn't very bothered by the misalignment of the Cory 25th anniversary under the circumstances. However they could also have decided to celebrate the 25th anniversary of a specific division or publication within the company if they cared about avoiding comparaisons to, say Dennis' age.

2 hours ago, chrisml said:

I am less critical of the Red Swan storyline because of the circumstances (Watson's death), but they could have come up with something better that had a payoff. That tended to be Swajeski's M.O.: lots of buildup with poor follow through.

The Red Swan as it played out felt like it was a delaying tactic. I don't know how much of the plot might have been the same as what was originally intended. I have always imagined that Douglass Watson was motivated to look fit because he was supposed to have a romantic interest in the planned storyline. 

54 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

Hmm. . .  Many of the characters she created were stereotypes.  Frankie Frame - wide-eyed psychic; Derek Dane - Beauty and the Beast; Lucas - mobster; Ken Jordan - Indiana Jones; Dennis Wheeler (not created by Swajeski) brought back as a race-car driving rich alpha-man, etc, etc...    Did Swajeski create even one believable character, who did not start as a stereotype??

I never really saw Lucas or Frankie as that easy of stereotypes. I felt like Swajeski tried hard (too hard for my taste) to show all sides of Frankie and she seemed to adore her. 

I do agree that Swajeski could have had more layered new characters, but the last time AW seemed to know how to do that was around 83-84.

Edited July 8Jul 8 by DRW50

9 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

On the one hand we can't really put too much weight on any date in a soap. Time just isn't moving at a logical pace. Some annual holidays like Christmas line up with airdates, but children age rapidly and adults age slowly within the storyline. So I wasn't very bothered by the misalignment of the Cory 25th anniversary under the circumstances. However they could also have decided to celebrate the 25th anniversary of a specific division or publication within the company if they cared about avoiding comparaisons to, say Dennis' age.

Absolutely. For example -- the 25th anniversary of Brava Magazine, or the 25th anniversary of the Russian Art Series, or the 25th anniversary of Cory Publishing's move to Bay City. And even though those dates would have still been askew,  at least none would have been as embarrassingly bad as declaring that Cory Publishing was only 25 years old in 1989.    

19 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

The Red Swan as it played out felt like it was a delaying tactic. I don't know how much of the plot might have been the same as what was originally intended. I have always imagined that Douglass Watson was motivated to look fit because he was supposed to have a romantic interest in the planned storyline. 

I figured it meant fight scenes, but who knows. Either way, I agree what we got onscreen was not the original plan. So much of the story seems made up on the fly.

Going back to the earlier Paulina discussion about her being a victim in Cali's eyes, I can understand why she felt that way. There was a lot of material in that timeframe of Jake strongarming and harassing Paulina, and she was on the backfoot with the Corys too. 

Just based on what has been said in the conversation, I wonder if AW was going to do a variation on the ATWT story where David Stewart left Oakdale and suffered from temporary amnesia and adopted the name Donald Saunders. David as Donald got involved with the widowed Cynthia Haynes, who was played by Linda Dano, and adopted as his own, Cynthia's unruly and conniving teenage daughter, Karen Haynes.

Could Timmins have been the daughter part?  Off the top of my head Mac suffers temporary amnesia winds up in Somerset and adopts his John Caldwell persona again.  In Somerset, he becomes involved with Pammy Davis and her unruly daughter played by Timmins.  Meanwhile, everyone in Bay City thinks Mac is missing or presumed dead.

3 hours ago, Tisy-Lish said:

Hmm. . .  Many of the characters she created were stereotypes.  Frankie Frame - wide-eyed psychic; Derek Dane - Beauty and the Beast; Lucas - mobster; Ken Jordan - Indiana Jones; Dennis Wheeler (not created by Swajeski) brought back as a race-car driving rich alpha-man, etc, etc...    Did Swajeski create even one believable character, who did not start as a stereotype??

I was talking specifically about giving Swajeski grace for the Red Swan storyline because of Watson's death.All soaps work with stereotypes or take from films/other soaps. It's how they use those ideas that matters. The Sharlene/Sharly story could be seen as taking from OLTL's Erika/Viki, but I enjoyed the storyline because of the writing and Holbook's Emmy calibre's work. The Derek Dane stuff never went anywhere so that's on Swajeski although other people on the thread point out that also had to do with the actor (whose name escape escapes me being a pain in the ass behind the scenes).

 

2 hours ago, Xanthe said:

The Red Swan as it played out felt like it was a delaying tactic. I don't know how much of the plot might have been the same as what was originally intended. I have always imagined that Douglass Watson was motivated to look fit because he was supposed to have a romantic interest in the planned storyline. 

Completely agree. That's what it felt like. And that's why I don't completely condemn it because they did have to do a lot of reshuffling to make up for Watson's death. After a certain point, Swajeski needed to stick the landing and she failed. That's on her and there are no excuses. It was also interesting in that Locher interview that Browne mentions Watson had never been required to do an insurance physical because he was so beloved. 

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I figured it meant fight scenes, but who knows. Either way, I agree what we got onscreen was not the original plan. So much of the story seems made up on the fly.

Going back to the earlier Paulina discussion about her being a victim in Cali's eyes, I can understand why she felt that way. There was a lot of material in that timeframe of Jake strongarming and harassing Paulina, and she was on the backfoot with the Corys too. 

I agree with this. Too much of Paulina's story relied upon Jake. Timmins was fantastic, and I still would have kept her and fired Eplin. I understand Timmins' unhappiness. I would just like to know the original plan for the character but I suppose we will never know.

I have a feeling that perhaps Paulina's mother might have been alive and a former flame of Mac had Watson not passed away so suddenly.  Rachel/Mac had been happy for some time as a couple so it was time for someone to shake up their happy union.. and perhaps with Rachel being jealous of this woman.. she might have sought comfort from Mitch thus making Felicia jealous.

Well, I step away from the computer for short while & everyone here basically lost their minds. But, to do the thing wheat & chaff, Let me see, take a long look. 

No, I do not think that AW was intending to send Mac off in an amnesiac stupor. Just because some people like it when David Stewart does not mean squat in Bay City. 

Everyone is correct who says pick another anniversary, still Cory, but make it make at least a little sense. 

I have always given grace on the issue of Doug falling down dead as can be, with several months ahead presumably wittern & in the can. All it was waiting on was basically him to act. Now he's gone, wheat to do.

 

19 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I was talking specifically about giving Swajeski grace for the Red Swan storyline because of Watson's death.All soaps work with stereotypes or take from films/other soaps. It's how they use those ideas that matters. The Sharlene/Sharly story could be seen as taking from OLTL's Erika/Viki, but I enjoyed the storyline because of the writing and Holbook's Emmy calibre's work. The Derek Dane stuff never went anywhere so that's on Swajeski although other people on the thread point out that also had to do with the actor (whose name escape escapes me being a pain in the ass behind the scenes).

 

Completely agree. That's what it felt like. And that's why I don't completely condemn it because they did have to do a lot of reshuffling to make up for Watson's death. After a certain point, Swajeski needed to stick the landing and she failed. That's on her and there are no excuses. It was also interesting in that Locher interview that Browne mentions Watson had never been required to do an insurance physical because he was so beloved. 

I agree with this. Too much of Paulina's story relied upon Jake. Timmins was fantastic, and I still would have kept her and fired Eplin. I understand Timmins' unhappiness. I would just like to know the original plan for the character but I suppose we will never know.

There was no way they were gonna fire TEplin. Get a hold of yourselfves now you're just talking crazy. Choose beween Cali Timmins and Tommmy eplin. The choice is so obvious.