23 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

Great Information.  And if my memory is correct, Ralph Camargo played a Supreme Court justice on AW -- an old New York friend of Mac Cory.  So there stands working-class Rachel Davis before a Supreme Court justice, as she marries Mac.  Lemay took us into the world of the very wealthy, but in a believable way.  

Also very interesting.  He was not likely to commit the cardinal sin on soaps, being boring.

Someone on the board mentioned recently that Victoria Wyndham’s father was a well-known radio actor who lost work when television took over, partly because of his Latino background. That detail stuck with me, especially thinking about how Rachel was styled in the early 1970s.

The show clearly played up the contrast between Rachel and Alice. Blonde vs. brunette, rich vs. working class, good girl vs. trouble. But when you look at how much effort went into straightening Rachel’s hair back then, it adds another layer. Her look wasn’t just about glamour or sex appeal. It was controlled. It was adjusted to fit what was considered acceptable on daytime television.

Knowing Wyndham’s background, it’s hard not to see that styling as part of a broader attempt to make her appearance align with certain norms. Alice got to be soft and untouched. Rachel was managed. That reads as more than just class difference. It starts to feel like quiet ethnic coding, whether or not it was intentional.

The show never named it, but when I think about what VW as Rachel had to change just to become a long-term lead, this all feels worth noticing.

8 minutes ago, j swift said:

Someone on the board mentioned recently that Victoria Wyndham’s father was a well-known radio actor who lost work when television took over, partly because of his Latino background. That detail stuck with me, especially thinking about how Rachel was styled in the early 1970s.

The show clearly played up the contrast between Rachel and Alice. Blonde vs. brunette, rich vs. working class, good girl vs. trouble. But when you look at how much effort went into straightening Rachel’s hair back then, it adds another layer. Her look wasn’t just about glamour or sex appeal. It was controlled. It was adjusted to fit what was considered acceptable on daytime television.

Knowing Wyndham’s background, it’s hard not to see that styling as part of a broader attempt to make her appearance align with certain norms. Alice got to be soft and untouched. Rachel was managed. That reads as more than just class difference. It starts to feel like quiet ethnic coding, whether or not it was intentional.

The show never named it, but when I think about what VW as Rachel had to change just to become a long-term lead, this all feels worth noticing.

Interesting observations, and I won't suggest you are wrong.  But what about Robin Strasser's version of Rachel?  Strasser was not Latino, or noted as being ethnic in any way.  Yet, it was already blonde vs. brunette, rich vs. working class, good girl vs. trouble, all the way back to 1968.  

45 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

Interesting observations, and I won't suggest you are wrong.  But what about Robin Strasser's version of Rachel?  Strasser was not Latino, or noted as being ethnic in any way.  Yet, it was already blonde vs. brunette, rich vs. working class, good girl vs. trouble, all the way back to 1968.  

Some people who say they know insist that VW always wore wigs. Even going so far as saying the actress owed so many, the number 100 was mentioned. I just add this in, since if so, her own preferences might have come into what could easily have been a lowkey ethnic vs WASP.

Edited July 2Jul 2 by Contessa Donatella

Victoria's Rachel went to a curly look in the 80's but that was the fashion at the time with the big permed look. But throughout the rest of the run she went back to the severe straight look.

57 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Victoria's Rachel went to a curly look in the 80's but that was the fashion at the time with the big permed look. But throughout the rest of the run she went back to the severe straight look.

Yeah, but looking back, I'm starting to wonder if that was a perm or if that was her natural hair texture. And, every time I look at her with straightened hair as younger Rachel, it looks painful to get it to turn out that way. Thank goodness, blow-drying technology evolved while she was in the role. 💇🏼‍♀️

Edited July 2Jul 2 by j swift

7 hours ago, j swift said:

Knowing Wyndham’s background

What do we really know, though? Ralph Camargo is described as Mexican but as far as I can tell he was born in California and his parents were also US-born. One set of grandparents were born in Mexico. He does appear to have been brought up in his Mexican grandparents' household in California. But the paternal side is only half the story as well. Wyndham's mother (Florence Skeels) was born in Montana and I don't see any reference to a Latin background on her mother's side.

7 hours ago, Xanthe said:

What do we really know, though? Ralph Camargo is described as Mexican but as far as I can tell he was born in California and his parents were also US-born. One set of grandparents were born in Mexico. He does appear to have been brought up in his Mexican grandparents' household in California. But the paternal side is only half the story as well. Wyndham's mother (Florence Skeels) was born in Montana and I don't see any reference to a Latin background on her mother's side.

Totally fair to clarify the specifics. I wasn’t trying to make a genealogical claim; just noting that when you know Wyndham’s father had Mexican roots and faced discrimination in the TV industry, it adds some weight to how Rachel was visually styled in those early years. The post was more about how presentation can carry cultural signals, even if the text never names them.

Edited July 2Jul 2 by j swift

3 hours ago, Xanthe said:

What do we really know, though? Ralph Camargo is described as Mexican but as far as I can tell he was born in California and his parents were also US-born. One set of grandparents were born in Mexico. He does appear to have been brought up in his Mexican grandparents' household in California. But the paternal side is only half the story as well. Wyndham's mother (Florence Skeels) was born in Montana and I don't see any reference to a Latin background on her mother's side.

Was he described as Mexican, though? I know for sure that at least once he was described as Mexican-American.

And, no, there's nothing to suggest any Latin on VW's mother's side of the family. So, basically, moot. Not alleged, at all. 

And, what are you thinking? That her father was overly sensitive or defensive, or what?

Regarding the 4th wall on Anne Heche's last day, I'm pretty sure the pilot when addressing her did so as Miss Heche on camera. She and Ryan are seemingly caught off- guard and start laughing as the finish the scene. 

18 minutes ago, Melroser said:

Regarding the 4th wall on Anne Heche's last day, I'm pretty sure the pilot when addressing her did so as Miss Heche on camera. She and Ryan are seemingly caught off- guard and start laughing as the finish the scene. 

What a hoot! I will have to listen for that. 

Grayson McCouch and Michelle Hurd (she has one scene, at least).

 

8 hours ago, j swift said:

Totally fair to clarify the specifics. I wasn’t trying to make a genealogical claim; just noting that when you know Wyndham’s father had Mexican roots and faced discrimination in the TV industry, it adds some weight to how Rachel was visually styled in those early years. The post was more about how presentation can carry cultural signals, even if the text never names them.

Thanks for clarifying. I can agree that this is more of a metatextual issue. And I think you are generally more attuned to issues of style that would completely pass me by.

8 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

And, what are you thinking? That her father was overly sensitive or defensive, or what?

No, not at all. I was struggling to interpret @j swift's point but now I am up to speed. I admit I was partly influenced by my own thoughts on the question of what surname female characters choose to use and how easily that can detach them from their maternal roots. 

@XantheThanks for the reply. I get you completely. I just think this is interesting. 

The Alice Barrett-Mitchell interview did not reveal too much behind the scenes info on AW. She did reveal she's a bit bitter about being fired to pay for Robert Kelker Kelly's salary especially after the way he left the show.