3 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

That first ad airing the day Douglass Watson passed on sends a chill up your spine.

(the second I imagine older viewers probably said - wait, Gwen's supposed to be a bitch now?)

 

Oh, sad, May 1st, Doug died.

Oh, sad, it's February & Carmen died in February. 

In other February news, should you laugh or should you cry? Jake & Donna had their night of sex. 

 

Calm down, Josie ...

 

34 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

That first ad airing the day Douglass Watson passed on sends a chill up your spine.

(the second I imagine older viewers probably said - wait, Gwen's supposed to be a bitch now?)

 

There were several of these 25th anniversary announcements.

 Does anyone else remember the one with John Hudson addressing the camera, and talking about Pat Randolph coming back to Bay City?   I believe he said something like, " I hope she doesn't try to cause trouble for Sharlene and me."    That has always made me wonder if Lemay or Swajeski originally planned to have Pat remain in Bay City, after the anniversary celebration.     

I believe at this point, Swajeski was still using at least part of Lemay's plot projections, which were a year-long.

5 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

believe at this point, Swajeski was still using at least part of Lemay's plot projections, which were a year-long.

What I was told was that when Doug died they were working from a mini-bible that covered 18 months & that was how devastating it was to the writers. Just an unusual time & a different time frame because of all the intricate plans they had about the big dates coming up & specific things with the publishing empire. FYI. 

3 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

When Lemay left AW in 1979, both NBC and P&G knew the show needed to become a "normal" soap opera again.  Eight-years of Lemay's character-driven stuff had been a tremendous success, but it was clearly time to return to the ATWT, GL, AMC model -- which (in 1979) included strong believable characters, but also strong identifiable storylines.  Unfortunately at that time, there were precious few head-writers capable of taking-on that task, especially since AW was running itself into the ground with the awful 90-minute format.  In my opinion -- only Agnes Nixon, Doug Marland, Bill Bell, and possibly Claire Labine could have successfully taken on the reigns, after an iconic head-writer such as Lemay.  Unfortunately, all of them were unavailable, or perhaps wanted too much money.   Too this day, I cannot think of any other writers who could have gotten AW out of 8th (or was it 9th?) place in the ratings, while the show was still at 90-minutes.  And then -- even after AW returned to the 60-minute format, TPTB seemed unwilling to hire a first-rate iconic head-writer with a long successful reputation.  Without that, I thought the show had little chance of improvement.  And it was the worst soap-opera on the air for it's final 20-years (my opinion).   Yes, it had wonderful actors and moments of greatness.  But moments of greatness do not typically raise the ratings.   And although some may have enjoyed the writing of Sam Radcliff, Tom King, and all the others up until 1999 -- the question to ask is, "did those writers bring-up the ratings?"  I believe the answer is "no."     But I bet you a milk-shake Agnes Nixon, Bill Bell, or Doug Marland would have been successful at getting the ratings up to a respectable point.    

The 90 min format was an albatross to the show, and I'm sure there were few writers who wanted to take it on, not only because of the workload but also the difficulty in juggling characters/stories in that format.

Although looking at Marland's work on ATWT there were so many characters and stories,I'm sure it could have worked at 90 mins.

When the show went back to an hour, there was still the possibility of getting it back into shape and there were efforts made with the return of Alice and Marianne but the casting was wrong.

They should have doubled down on the Matthews, bring in Ricky to live with Liz. I thought the show was quite strong when Sandy was introduced (was that L Virginia Browne?)but Corinne Jacker blew that to pieces.

3 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

When Lemay left AW in 1979, both NBC and P&G knew the show needed to become a "normal" soap opera again.  Eight-years of Lemay's character-driven stuff had been a tremendous success, but it was clearly time to return to the ATWT, GL, AMC model -- which (in 1979) included strong believable characters, but also strong identifiable storylines.  Unfortunately at that time, there were precious few head-writers capable of taking-on that task, especially since AW was running itself into the ground with the awful 90-minute format.  In my opinion -- only Agnes Nixon, Doug Marland, Bill Bell, and possibly Claire Labine could have successfully taken on the reigns, after an iconic head-writer such as Lemay.  Unfortunately, all of them were unavailable, or perhaps wanted too much money.   Too this day, I cannot think of any other writers who could have gotten AW out of 8th (or was it 9th?) place in the ratings, while the show was still at 90-minutes.  And then -- even after AW returned to the 60-minute format, TPTB seemed unwilling to hire a first-rate iconic head-writer with a long successful reputation.  Without that, I thought the show had little chance of improvement.  And it was the worst soap-opera on the air for it's final 20-years (my opinion).   Yes, it had wonderful actors and moments of greatness.  But moments of greatness do not typically raise the ratings.   And although some may have enjoyed the writing of Sam Radcliff, Tom King, and all the others up until 1999 -- the question to ask is, "did those writers bring-up the ratings?"  I believe the answer is "no."     But I bet you a milk-shake Agnes Nixon, Bill Bell, or Doug Marland would have been successful at getting the ratings up to a respectable point.    

Did the ratings go up a bit in 1984 when Richard Cullton and Gary Tomlin were the head writers?  If they had stuck around for a couple more years I believe the ratings would have gone up.  

7 hours ago, Efulton said:

Did the ratings go up a bit in 1984 when Richard Cullton and Gary Tomlin were the head writers?  If they had stuck around for a couple more years I believe the ratings would have gone up.  

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe AW ever got higher than number 9 after 1979.  It may have risen to number 8 briefly at one point, but I can't verify that.  Still, number 9 or number 8 in the ratings for 20 years, is not going to be considered a success by anybody.   So all the things they tried - hijinks and comedy, crime drama, over the top foolishness, dozens of new characters in and out, etc. - even though some fans enjoyed it, the ratings did not go up.  So none of it worked.   

30 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe AW ever got higher than number 9 after 1979.  It may have risen to number 8 briefly at one point, but I can't verify that.  Still, number 9 or number 8 in the ratings for 20 years, is not going to be considered a success by anybody.   So all the things they tried - hijinks and comedy, crime drama, over the top foolishness, dozens of new characters in and out, etc. - even though some fans enjoyed it, the ratings did not go up.  So none of it worked.   

Here's where we really get depressed, but face the hard, cold facts. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_daytime_soap_opera_ratings

List of American daytime soap opera ratings

1977-1978

#2 of 14 AW 8.6/28 share

 

1978-1979

#8 of 14  AW 7.5

 

1979-1980

#8 of 13 AW 7.1

 

1980-1981

#10 of 12 AW 5.1

 

1981-1982

#12 of 15 AW 4.7

 

1982-1983

#10 of 14 4.8

 

1983-1984

#9 of 14 AW 5.6

 

1984-2985

#9 of 14 AW 5.5

 

1985-1986

#8 of 13 AW 5.1

 

1986-1987

#10 of 14 AW 5.1

 

1987-1988

#9 of 12 AW 5.1

 

1988-1989

#9 of 13 AW 5.0

 

1989-1990

#9 of 12 AW 4.0

 

1990-1991

#9 of 12 AW 3.8

 

1991-1992

#9 of 11  AW 4.1

 

1992-1993

#9 of 11 AW 4.2

 

1993-1994

#9 of 10 AW 3.5

 

1994-1995

#9 of 10 AW 3.1

 

1995-1996

#9 of 11 AW 3.1

 

1996-1997

#9 of 12 AW 3.1

 

1997-1998

#9 of 11 AW 2.6

 

1998-1999

#9 of 12 AW 2.4 Final Season Last air day June 25, 1999

 

#10 PC 2.2

#11 PSSN 1.9 debut

#12 BEACH 1.7

Donna, I'm going to say this as politely but directly as I can: please stop using Wikipedia, especially pages that I assume we're all familiar with, as a primary source. Thank you.

Anyway, today marks the 30th anniversary of Grant and Vicky's wedding. I have to hand it to Vicky; her weddings in the Jensen Buchanan era were quite spectacular.

NBC had wanted to cancel the show years earlier, so they essentially just finally decided to pull the trigger in 1999.

There was a week or two in 1996 when Laibson and McTavish had tanked GL so spectacularly that AW did rise above it slightly - but yeah, always stuck 9th for the most part. 

Neil, your thoughts about hiring some really stellar HW to save AW would certainly seem to make good sense. However, everything I know about P&G and NBC and the decline & eventual cancellation of AW definitely does not make good sense. The fought each other. NBC wanted to get rid of Victoria. NBC was obsessed with ABC owning their soaps. NBC was jealous of ABC. NBC wanted to own their soaps. At least part of NBC people wanted to get rid of AW & have that timeslot for a new soap, that they would own. There was some infighting among NBC people because they weren't all of one mindset. P&G was understandably on the defensive & wanted to save AW, and wanted to continue to have Victoria as the de facto star of the show. Oh, yeah, NBC wanted AW to become more like DOOL, DOOL jr or DOOL lite so they could advertise & promote something like a brand of soaps. P&G did not think AW could be like DOOL. By no stretch of the imagination do I think they sat calmly & reflected & tried to decide what would save the situation. NBC and P&G reached the point in their fighting that they agreed to take turns making decisions. So, for example, EP, one decided on Jill, the other decided on Charlotte Savitz. Sounds crazy, doesn't it? 

It was 1994 when other companies approached P&G about either going into partnership or selling AW to them. Fox TV was one as they wanted their own daytime lineup with soaps. Columbia-TriStar was one. What became Viacom was one. Wal-Mart was in some partnerships with P&G & they MAY have been one, not so sure of that. ABC did not approach P&G to buy AW outright until the cancellation had been announced. P&G said no to everyone. 

As a fan activist at that time, we were bitterly disappointed that none of these possible corporate moves were a greenlight because they would've meant the show would stay on the air.  And, not being on the air was looking very likely. Victoria had by this time taken a leadership role with the actors & she also reached out & made contact with fans. 

14 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

NBC had wanted to cancel the show years earlier, so they essentially just finally decided to pull the trigger in 1999.

The only thing that is curious to me is that the soaps were all on schedules, had deadlines, & AW's was May. But, Susan D. Lee, of NBC Daytime, moved in April even summoning MADD back from a vacation. Of course, it doesn't matter. Just a curiosity. 

44 minutes ago, Franko said:

Donna, I'm going to say this as politely but directly as I can: please stop using Wikipedia, especially pages that I assume we're all familiar with, as a primary source. Thank you.

She's been told not to do this or spam many times and seems to have been repeatedly shadowbanned or barred from posting for long stretches as a result. She doesn't learn and eventually something will have to be done.

Edited February 9, 20232 yr by Vee

22 minutes ago, Vee said:

She's been told not to do this or spam many times and seems to have been repeatedly shadowbanned or barred from posting for long stretches as a result. She doesn't learn and eventually something will have to be done.

Actually this is the first anyone's said anything to me about not using Wikipedia. Just to set the record straight. 

Another World Memories on #SoapTwitter has reminded me that today in 1989 the show did "A Valentine to Singles" which began with single women revealing what they look for in a man. 

Not this one in particular so much, but in general the special shows was something AW did that I really liked. 

23 hours ago, Tonksadora said:

Oh, sad, May 1st, Doug died.

Oh, sad, it's February & Carmen died in February. 

In other February news, should you laugh or should you cry? Jake & Donna had their night of sex. 

 

Thanks, I never saw these spots.  Most of the ones I have seen almost did not pan out to the actual events that happen at the anniversary celebration.  I also mentioned before, there was so much emphasis on the entire Frame family invited and coming to the celebration and none were really there.  Steve and Janice in ghosts and Gwen is only a Frame by marriage.  For such a large family, it was silly that kept talking about the entire family that was not present except for the current Frame family that were currently on the show at the time.  I don't also classify Alice either as the Frame family.  It was great how the Matthews family was more or less reunited