Van Hansis acting is so bad!!

[brimike]

Dude, it's all good. You came up with that awesome Lago idea in the other thread. We're even. LOL!

[MarkH]

What thread?

[Soapsuds]

The ATWT April thread. It dealt with someone to come between Luke and Noah. And David Lago was mentioned in the thread.

[All My Shadows]

The one about ATWT getting their ish together over the next year or so. We had a circle jerk think-tank about Luke. I'm sure Van would appreciate knowing that.

[Soapsuds]

LOL..oops wrong thread..so many ATWT lately I forget..haha

[leevo64]

Noah is a HORRIBLE representation of a gay character. I know that Nuke has all these loyal followers and to them the two characters are 'role models,' but Noah is indecisive, constantly questioning his sexuality (until very recently), and always tortured and in crisis. If I were Luke, I would have dumped his ass the moment he agreed to marry Ameera. Noah is so incredibly weak, but because all the Nuke followers seem to see is a token gay couple, he has this kind of untouchable status. And Jake Silbermann doesn't help matters with his performance.

I say have Luke run away to Chicago and explore what it REALLY means to be a gay man in 2009.

[Soapsuds]

Thanks....agree with your views on Noah.

[brimike]

You get a strong innovative head writer in there, and you do a HUGE casting call to find the perfect guy who has OFF-THE-CHARTS chemistry with Hansis without even saying a word, who elevates him to a whole new level? And I guarantee you, that fanbase will change their minds.

That's the thing about fanbases - they're born out of other fanbases for couples they didn't even know were failing. The Lucky/Liz fanbase made way for Liason. JoVan/JoNat gave way to Jared/Natalie. JAVA gave way to Nash/Jessica. Rendall gave way to Zendall and Rylee. Tangeline gave way to Tarty. I'm not saying any of these were good or bad choices by the writers (I can already hear the OLTL and AMC fans writing e-mails threatening my life), and I'm not saying the same people who liked one pairing will automatically like another. These fanbases don't disappear entirely, but when the chemistry is oozing out of every scene, it's hard to deny that. And soap fans, though stubborn on the boards, can be surprisingly malleable. They'll change their tune if they're given a better option than the one presented.

The Nuke fanbase loves Nuke because they're used to loving Nuke, and they don't know anything else. There's also never been a viable threat to them, besides the psycho-of-the-month nobody gives a [!@#$%^&*] about. I guarantee you that if you put somebody in there who is undeniably, uncategorically, raising the game to a whole new level? You'll get some converts. A LOT of converts.

[MarkH]

Leevo64, I realize in the modern world gay men and lesbians become aware of their sexuality, are not conflicted by it, are accepted for acknowledging it. It is a beautiful world.

I inhabit a different world. It is a Prop 8 world, where the world loathes men and women who love within their gender. I inhabit a world where Larry Craig is show ashamed by his sexuality and how it will be received, he has to go toe-tapping in the toilet. And when he finally gets his chance to 'fess up, he has to say "wide stance" because he still can't tell the truth.

In a world where sexuality is surrounded by loathing, it is VERY easy for a "good boy' (like Col. Phobe's son) to internalize that self-loathing. TOO easy.

Y'all wanna see these shiny happy gay people who have no conflict about their sexuality? I guess I do too...but that is not the world I live in.

I acknowledge ALL the weaknesses you describe in this story. But I think it still has merits (on a generally awful show, it seems) because we have some snippets of truth buried in there.

There are PLENTY of gay men -- in the 21st century -- in 2009 -- who are always tortured and in crisis. Some -- PLENTY -- go to their graves in 2009 NEVER being authentic. Noah speaks to a lot more men than you may have encountered in your experience. Really. Could Silberman be a better actor? Sure. Does he really convey that struggle? Kinda. But it is truly wonderful that the struggle might still be a part of the story.

Michael C. Hall did a masterful job with this during the first two seasons of Six Feet Under. But even his David Fisher eventually came out, got a hot cop, got a family, was accepted by his brood. But plenty -- PLENTY -- of David Fishers stay mired in Season One forever. Really. I'm proud of ATWT for -- maybe -- capturing a little piece of that.

[DavidEvanSmith]

I think I brought the term "Otter" to the good gays of SON.

Here's my take:

1. I'm still laughing over the fact that Charity Rahmer, the poor dear, is still being held up as the definition of the worst actor to hit soaps EVER.

2. Totally agree with everything said in this thread about Luke/Noah and how they "represent". PISS POOR. I've long envisioned myself as the cub that comes between them, the one gay in college that actually goes out to bars and has fun. Have Luke and Noah ever gone out for a drink and had fun?

3. If you want to see gays that could be aggressive tops, as well as sugar daddies, sexy questioning men, a drag queen, a down-low African American executive involved secretly with male and female half-siblings, and a power lesbian... instead of watching ATWT, dig up my soap Beyond the Horizon and read that from 2pm-3pm every day.

[MarkH]

Pelphrey and Hansis?

[Soapsuds]

Unfortunately, I don't see Goutman and Pissy fixing the problem. They muddled up the story and now it has become so cartoonish ..IMO.

[brimike]

LOL! I used Pelphrey in the other thread as just an example of the TYPE - but honestly, I'd love to see them find an unknown. Like when AMC found Duhamel or.. okay... when GL found Pelphrey. They're out there. They just have to look harder.

LOL! Thanks, DES!

They're too busy "fighting the good fight".

Update it, would ya? :-)

[DavidEvanSmith]

1. I don't think I could handle Tom Pelphrey's otter self putting the moves on Noah. That would do it for me, though.

2. Could anyone see Bobby Steggert (Ex-Sam Grey, AMC) as Luke?

3. You're all caught up on BTH?! I'm still working on the September installment, but in the next two installments there will be a death and some HOT grief sex... to give you a little preview.

[leevo64]

If I made it sound like gay men aren't conflicted, tortured by their own religious beliefs, oppressed by things like Prop 8, that's not what I meant. Luke and Noah, in my opinion, should represent two gay characters who are not constantly oppressed, violated, attacked, insulted and victimized. In spite of all the difficult challenges that gay men face, daytime needs to move past the Hank Eliots and the Billy Douglases of the 80s and early 90s and catch up with the rest of television. Look at shows like Ugly Betty, Brothers and Sisters, United States of Tara, Desperate Housewives, and even GH: Night Shift. Each show accurately portrays gay characters that face challenges but face them in mature and logical ways. The point is that yes, a show should be commended for showing conflicted and oppressed realities of being gay - but ATWT doesn't do it in a realistic or accurate way. JMO.