Yup.

The writing is not to blame. Even when soaps were at the peak they tended to be pretty silly. Luke and Laura vs a weather machine on GH, Roman Brady on DOOL coming back as a priest only it turned out he wasn't really Roman, entire towns sleeping together and nobody thinks it is strange but then on christmas they all sit down and sing carols...you can cite so many ridiculous things about soaps, but a lot of that is what makes them fun. If soaps weren't silly there would have never been parodies like Carol Burnett doing "As The Stomach Turns" 35 years ago.

Carol Burnett parodied everything. She may have thought soaps were silly, but she also loved AMC and took it very seriously.

Soaps have always had ridiculous elements, but there were also moments of amazing quality. Harding Lemay's tenure at AW. The Dobsons tenure at GL. Agnes Nixon's early work at AMC and OLTL. Douglas Marland's work at GH, GL and ATWT. The years when Gordon Russell was in charge at OLTL. The peak years of the Labines at Ryan's Hope. The Labines and Wendy Riche at GH. Nancy Curlee at GL. Bill Bell or Pat Falken Smith at DAYS.

There's a way to write in the soap format while still having some respect for the genre. The problem was that more and more the soaps had no respect for the genre, no respect for viewers. They believed the audience was stupid, narrow-minded, and easily led, and the results showed onscreen.

But, Carl, all those tenures were isolated or followed by years and years of inimitable dreck. That's the problem - instead of either following e.g. Lemay's quality on AW, things just spiralled down.

But, Carl, all those tenures were isolated or followed by years and years of inimitable dreck. That's the problem - instead of either following e.g. Lemay's quality on AW, things just spiralled down.

I know, but the claim was that even at their best, soaps are things like a weather machine on GH. I don't think that's the best of soaps. That was a horrible story written by someone I don't even remember, because GH kept losing headwriters, and enlivened by the strong chemistry between the actors and Gloria Monty's production methods.

I'm not saying soaps have ever been high quality for extended periods of time, but I do think there have been some really strong high points. And some of the soaps did have 6-7 year runs of quality, which is no easy feat. Slesar at EoN, Marland at ATWT, the Dobsons followed by Marland at GL. It wasn't until about 10 or 15 years ago that the writing started getting just dreadful on so many different soaps, and that all the soaps started becoming completely homogenized and terrified.

Edited April 3, 200916 yr by CarlD2

The Ice Princess story was Thom Racina's doing, based on his book The Great Los Angeles Blizzard. Basically, he met with Gloria for a dinner and she bought his story bible. Or something like that... You can read more here.

Whether that was breaking the strike rules and how it affected soaps from then on is a great topic. Worthy of a thorough yet in the end quite fruitless research.

Edited April 3, 200916 yr by Sylph

I know, but the claim was that even at their best, soaps are things like a weather machine on GH. I don't think that's the best of soaps. That was a horrible story written by someone I don't even remember, because GH kept losing headwriters, and enlivened by the strong chemistry between the actors and Gloria Monty's production methods.

I'm not saying soaps have ever been high quality for extended periods of time, but I do think there have been some really strong high points. And some of the soaps did have 6-7 year runs of quality, which is no easy feat. Slesar at EoN, Marland at ATWT, the Dobsons followed by Marland at GL. It wasn't until about 10 or 15 years ago that the writing started getting just dreadful on so many different soaps, and that all the soaps started becoming completely homogenized and terrified.

I think you might be looking at soaps through rose colored glasses here. I love em, but even at its height they verge on melodramatic silliness. I watched AMC and saw (and this was considered one of their better periods) Skye Chandler fake a coma for weeks, maybe months, all made up and never needing a toilet walking around secret passages in walls. People constantly near death, always in hospitals, everyone sleeps with everyone else...those are the stuff soaps are made of. Henry Slesar is the greatest writer to ever grace soaps and I think the fact he tried to get away from a lot of that stuff is proof of that.

I think you might be looking at soaps through rose colored glasses here. I love em, but even at its height they verge on melodramatic silliness. I watched AMC and saw (and this was considered one of their better periods) Skye Chandler fake a coma for weeks, maybe months, all made up and never needing a toilet walking around secret passages in walls. People constantly near death, always in hospitals, everyone sleeps with everyone else...those are the stuff soaps are made of. Henry Slesar is the greatest writer to ever grace soaps and I think the fact he tried to get away from a lot of that stuff is proof of that.

I wasn't saying this type of story doesn't happen on soaps, I was just saying there have been fairly lengthy periods on many shows which were of very high quality.

Soaps were made of families, friendships, and the strains and bonds between those characters. That's usually a soap at its best, and it's only in more recent years that everything has been amped up to the most cynical and heartless degree.

I don't know if you're talking about Skye's late 80s coma (which I didn't see) or her coma when Carrie Genzel joined the show. I thought AMC was in a very rough patch then, as that was around the time they decided to rip off DAYS with that awful Jamaica story, and they almost fired Robin Mattson to have Janet turn herself into Brooke.

I think you might be looking at soaps through rose colored glasses here. I love em, but even at its height they verge on melodramatic silliness. I watched AMC and saw (and this was considered one of their better periods) Skye Chandler fake a coma for weeks, maybe months, all made up and never needing a toilet walking around secret passages in walls. People constantly near death, always in hospitals, everyone sleeps with everyone else...those are the stuff soaps are made of. Henry Slesar is the greatest writer to ever grace soaps and I think the fact he tried to get away from a lot of that stuff is proof of that.

And that is precisely the reason I only ever got into Y&R. Actually Search For Tomorrow wasn't really that way, either.. I and I watched it for a time as well. The loony, over the top stuff is what turned me off, I also watched Knots Landing and not Dynasty. I think the ONLY reason that Y&R is where it is today is because it never REALLY stepped over that line "Jumped the shark" so to speak ( although "Pheila" and the reliquary SL stood right ON that line, LML must need medication)... And part of the reason for that is there were things that written so stupidly that only came off as well as they did because of the talent of the actors. I don't know why writers don't realize that if you do crazy stuff, your'e cutting your own throat.

Edited April 4, 200916 yr by alphanguy74

And that is precisely the reason I only ever got into Y&R. Actually Search For Tomorrow wasn't really that way, either.. I and I watched it for a time as well. The loony, over the top stuff is what turned me off, I also watched Knots Landing and not Dynasty. I think the ONLY reason that Y&R is where it is today is because it never REALLY stepped over that line "Jumped the shark" so to speak ( although "Pheila" and the reliquary SL stood right ON that line, LML must need medication)... And part of the reason for that is there were things that written so stupidly that only came off as well as they did because of the talent of the actors. I don't know why writers don't realize that if you do crazy stuff, your'e cutting your own throat.

We have very similar tastes. I have enjoyed campiness at times, but I'm a Y&R/KL boy all the way.

Speaking of Nancy Curlee, I'll have the great honour to interview her in a few hours. If anyone has questions they want me to ask, please tell me soon

And will the interview be available for the general public?

this was on the cover of USA Today the other day, Well sort of.

There was blurb about it on the cover, but you had to go to the Life section to read it.

Sure Sylph, I will type it down here

What blurb?

that was the cover.

this was in the Life section-

'Guiding Light' will go out after 72 years

By Gary Levin, USA TODAY

CBS is pulling the plug on daytime's Guiding Light, the longest-running drama on television, after 57 years, a victim of a long ratings decline.

Guiding Light began life as a 15-minute radio serial in 1937 and moved to TV in 1952, gradually expanding to an hour in 1977. Along the way, it introduced viewers to many stars, including Kevin Bacon, Calista Flockhart, Allison Janney, James Earl Jones, Cicely Tyson, Taye Diggs, Hayden Panettiere and Brittany Snow.

But the drama is the least-watched of eight remaining network soaps, averaging 2.2 million viewers this season. That's less than a third of the audience of 20 years ago.

FAMOUS ALUMNI: See which stars got their start on 'Guiding Light'

CBS Paramount Television Group chief Nancy Tellem says the network had been considering canceling Guiding Light, owned by soap giant Procter & Gamble, for years, but "we held out on this as long as we could, out of respect for P&G, the show … and the impact it's had on television." But the soap "was on the bottom of the heap (and) had kind of run its course," she says, adding that the network hopes a replacement show can deliver higher ratings at a lower cost.

The network is expected to replace the series with a talk or game show after the final episode airs Sept. 18.

A radical format change early last year, employing handheld video cameras and outdoor scenes, was meant to make the show more contemporary (and cheaper to produce). But it didn't stop the ratings slide.

The cancellation is the latest in a long line for a genre named for P&G, which also owns CBS' As the World Turns. Soaps have been hurt by competition from cable and by societal changes as many more women work outside the home.

Earlier casualties include Ryan's Hope and Loving on ABC. NBC canceled Passions in 2007 and P&G's Another World in 1999, though Passions was extended by a year when DirecTV took it over.

P&G is hoping for a similar arrangement to avoid extinguishing Light. Though a deal with DirecTV is considered unlikely, Disney's SoapNet has expanded its array of original programming.

"We are working hard to find the show a new home, and we are exploring all our options to continue to bring loyal fans the characters and stories they love," says Brian Cahill, managing director of producer TeleNext Media, in a statement.

But P&G spokeswoman Jeannie Tharrington says it's possible some of Light's cast members could migrate to Asthe World Turns, the company's only remaining soap. Kim Zimmer, who has played Reva Shayne since 1983, is considered the show's top star.

Aside from Light, CBS' current daytime lineup includes The Price Is Right, top-rated Young and the Restless, The Bold and the Beautiful and As the World Turns.

Of course, the whole thing starts to turn into "Look, Kevin Bacon was on that show a long, long time ago! And James Earl Jones! And Calista Flockhart! They were stars on Guiding Light!"

No. Just no. Calista Flockhart was a freaking day-player.

^LOL