December 29, 2008 - January 2, 2009

[JackPeyton]

i disagree.

holding on is reason to cheer.

gaining at all, esp a rather steady week to week growth over a period of time.

i dont think anyone is shouting from the rooftops, but theres reason to cheer.

[brimike]

What can I say? I'm a pessimist at heart. Why do you think I continue haunting this place? I need all of you to remind me there's hope yet.

[JackPeyton]

ha, i understand. im the odded combo of a pessimist & a optimist. i can point out all the negative and then flip it and all the plus, lol.

[DaytimeFan]

When I took a media studies course during my undergrad I learned the same thing, it's about demographics. One demographic that isn't posted publicly by Nielsen, at least for daytime, is the wealth level of specific viewers. The only show I can speak of is Y&R which has, by far, the wealthiest viewing audience...that also influences where ad buyers place their funds.

Total viewers, however, does count to the network. It allows the network to demonstrate to their shareholders that the programs have a viable audience. The trick in daytime is having the biggest number of Total Viewers in the key demos (18-34 and 18-49), which is exactly what Y&R's got.

[Cyberologist]

I have issues with Carlivati and Franks because I'm a fan of REG/Evangeline and didn't like how that went down so when she left she took about 4 fanbases with her and they aren't coming back for the most part. The rapeOmance deal which I found extremely distasteful and surprising because through his scribing I infer he respects women.

I just think he may have thought of Haskell/St. John acting off each other which is good stuff. But he should have figured out another way for them to play this out. I'm back in it because

of Tea she's back so. I sort of like him bringing these actors back on it enriches the show

Still, I admire him that he took care of the Todd/Marty deal, and I respect that however OLTL and GH (with their propping characters sacrificing good story) has serious diversity issues for me so, African Americans have bailed from what I can tell. We have people of color in power yet I don't see this on soaps they don't reflect the society I live in today. Re: GH, Jr has to go, that's it, period...that's the only way I'll even entertain the possibility of watching that show again. I'll catch Scrubs on clips.

I happen to like Carlivati' writing style for the most part; I admire him in many ways,

he came in doing the grunt work and worked it, pulling himself up from his boot straps according to the post about him I've read. And I think he's a lawyer meaning he could have done something else.

Like Sri, his love of this genre (and respect of women) of storytelling shines through his writing. I think a lot of the bashing comes from the "golden boy" deal when he first took over from the Hack

which never made sense to me.

I'm beginning to watch AMC to check them out. Its a more diverse canvas in top tier story so I can roll with that. Also DAYS because I don't want another soap to die.

[rangethatrover]

Cyberologist-

I REALLY appreciate your honesty. You summed up alot of what I already figured. Even when I used to come here and I used to check out the polls- this is when I only watched Y&R and B&B and had given up my all time fave soap OLTL back in 2003 (OLTL was consistently at the top of the polls here along with Evangeline -I could not stand her or the actress and John McBain- Could not stand him or the actor)

I was figuring the gloating comes partly from her passionate fanbase who has an ax to grind and I knew the other thing was the extremely polarizing Marty storyline. And the overpraise of Carlivati didn't/doesn't help.

With the exception of B&B (whom I think rides completely on Y&R's coattails and is now officially the most horrifically acted/written soap on the air with every cliche in the book)I would LOVE to see its ratings slip into oblivion. Steffi's death was the last straw for me...OTHER than that show, I am happy when any soap improves its ratings in this climate.

And yeah, I do find OLTL outstanding and hate to see its ratings suck in every category.

It cracks me up how polarizing this show is and how mad I get when people gloat over its garbage ratings.

In my opinion Frons needs his ass booted and has to be replaced by someone who really wants their soaps to be the best and succeed and make money.

[SteveFrame]

The thing of being angry over the firings and the like of certain actors may be what ends up destroying soaps esp. with decreasing budgets.

Over teh next few years as budgest decrease demands by some of the stars are not going to be met and you will see more cases like Renee Goldsberry being let go because once daytime could give into the demands of it's stars and work out contracts but the money is not going to be there anymore. So you will see more of them walking because contract negotiations won't go well.

Either that or the stars will give into the networks and take the paycuts and stay.

I know right now that many Deidre Hall and Drake Hogestyn fans are launching campaigns to make Days hire them back. I don't want to see them fired either, but at the same time I have to think if the money is not there and Days is forced to bring them back what is going to be the long term damage to the show. Will someone else lose their job just so Deidre and Drake can come back - even if they do come back at reduced cost? Will it end up hurting Days in teh long run by further endangering the budget?

It is going to be a weird few months and years (if soaps do hold on). You will see many fans walk like was talked about above with the fan bases mentioned who left because of Goldsberry.

It all comes down to the couple/character fan bases and the show fans.

I liked Goldsberry and I loved her character, but I have often wondered just exactly what it was she wanted that the show could not give her. Was it even reasonable? Someone at the show has to be protector of the budget and sometime they have to say no. It is for the sake of the show and for all the other people that are employed there. I know her fans blame the show but the way I look at it she had a choice. She could take the offer they made or walk. She chose to walk - that was her decision.

I think in the end it must have been what was best for the show because in all this talk of budgets and stuff look what show on ABC didn't have to make the big cuts and cut the salaries of many of it's vets. That show was OLTL.

The EP's can't be expected to just give in to every star and give them everything they want just to get them to stay. In the end they have got to protect the show and do what is best for it.

Of course those fans have the right to get mad and quit watching. Taht is their perogative.

But in the end the thing I want most of all is for more EP's to think what is best for the show and not what is best for this or that fan base. Look at Days of Our Lives. That is why they are in the trouble they are in. Ken Corday doesn't have the balls to stand up to the fan bases and he just kept mismanaging money and bringing people back to appease the fans and look at where they are at today.

[SteveFrame]

Oh I want to stipulate too that I stand by what I said above but every situation has to be weighed too with the actor/performer in question. Some stars their demands should be considered based on their tenure with the show, etc. (i.e. someone like Martha Byrne). In those cases yes things should be tried and attempted, but in the end if those demands are going to hurt the show too, then the overall value has to be considered too.

Is it worth losing the show to keep this star?

I know every fan base will chime and say well our star has this many fans, etc. but I think for most people they can see that someone like Renee Goldsberry is in no way comparable to someone like Victoria Rowell or Martha Byrne - no matter how many fans she alledgedly had.

[rangethatrover]

That Martha Byrne firing still surprises me- Didn't she only ask for her episode guarantee to stay the same?

I have never watched ATWT but when flipping through, Noelle Beck is certainly as beautiful as she ever was- she is stunning. Martha Byrne just seems more soulful and real. But hell, I don't watch ATWT this is just from passing through.

And hell no REG is NO Victoria Rowell. Not 1/10.

[JONNYSBRO]

My dream is Martha Byrne shows up on OLTL as maybe Gigi's mother or sometime of great role. I want her to come back to daytime bigtime. Noelle Beck is doing a good job considering how hard it was to replace Martha. I really still cannot believe P&G let her go from ATWT but I still feel we will see Martha again somwhere else and I am hoping it will be on OLTL.

[jpoliver78]

I may be in the minority with this opinion, but I believe that ATWT was justified in releasing Martha Byrne from the series. Personally, I think that asking for a specific number of episode appearances is too much. That basically forces the writers to cater to this one particular character. It is a well known fact that characters - even major characters - are not always utilized and are put on the "back burner" from time to time. By forcing the writers into making sure that Byrne's character, Lily, is in a certain number of episodes, the writers would be forced to come up with storyline for the character or simply (needlessly) insert the character into scenes in order to meet that episode requirement.

At least as of now, it seems that both Lily and on-screen ex-husband Holden have been sent to the back-burner, currently being used more to react to other storylines (such as Luke/Brian/Lucinda for Lily and Carly/Jack for Holden) than driving storylines.

Lastly, I feel that Noelle Beck has done an admirable turn in replacing Byrne, even though the writers seem to have changed subtle nuances about the character to adapt to Beck's portrayal.

[SteveFrame]

Well the guarantees is not any indication that the writers had to use her that many episodes. Most performers are hardly even held to those guarantees. What Byrne was most likely concerned with was that she had to be paid for that many episodes - even if for some reason they did not use her. It is sort of a budget surety for actors.

And that goes to the heart of what I was talking about. Many fans are going to have a hard time dealing with things like that. It is hard for me with Byrne to say well the show was looking out for the budget and knew they couldn't afford to pay her that many episodes. But at the same time I am saying this is Martha [!@#$%^&*] Byrne - she should get what she wants.

But as budgets get tighter many of these stars are not going to get what they want. And guarantees are going to go down in order to keep the shows on the air.

You will see many fans get mad about certain faves but will turn around and say that the show did what was best when someone else is cut.

It is going to be a difficult time for soaps.

[NYC123]

IMO as much as I dislike what Dena is writing on DAYS, DAYS is setting a good example of how a soap that escaped cancallation can bounce back. They went from 2.5 to 3.2 million viewers and I think thats a good sign for soaps.

[rangethatrover]

Days, especially at its height, always had the most loyal (kindest definition I could think of) fans of any show- by far. I think despite its ratings, Days still has the biggest "reserve" of fans that could be swayed back to the show. I could see this show taking over the #3 position permanently within 3 months.

I honestly do not think ABC (despite 200,000 viewers who seem to tune in for sweeps stunts) has this group of reserve fans that could be brought back... MAYBE GH, AMC next, OLTL- not at all.

I think OLTL's only hope is grabbing the elusive new viewer.

Days has a very strong (yet fickle) younger fanbase that could really return to viewing the show- and stay- with some strong stories.

And I loathe Higley and could care less about Days- but I think Days is the show that could seriously grow. Significantly more than even Y&R. The viewers for that show always seem to be willing to tune back in- if not sporadically.

[Supersage]

Whenever a series (daytime OR primetime) ignores it's core audience, then it is time for the powers that be to be replaced. Goutman made the same mistake Ellen Wheeler and Barbara Bloom made when they released Grant Aleksander five years ago. Mark my words: If ATWT is still around in five years, they will be clamoring to have Martha Byrne back.

About GL: The show is making money now. The same cannot be said a year and a half ago. The writing has improved (anything would have been an improvement). And TPTB are listening to the viewers to bring back some long asked for characters (Phillip, Edmund, Roxie). They are making head way with Bloom, whereas Bloom has, for the past six years, tried to make GL a different show (to capture the younger demos). For the first time in a long time, I feel GL has a chance to be renewed this year. I even predict Bloom will overlook her earlier demand for a 1.8 rating.