B&B: Good Article on the HORRIBLE couples onscreen

[leevo64]

Great observation. I remember the Erica Lovejoy/Sheila story where Rick and Amber were being manipulated by the two and it ended in Taylor's "death." That was SUCH a good story. The show had dignity back then.

[Rakesh]

ITA Mark! Well said.

[Cheap21]

killing Taylor was the beginning of the end for me. Then they went and did it to Macy. B&B has had its moments since, but something definetly changed

[MarkH]

I really wish there were some brilliant and thus-far-hidden member of the Bell clan (Lauralee, hell, even one of Bill's grandchildren--but I think they are not old enough) who had "the gift", and could work some magic.

To quote Irna Phillips, this show has "saturated logic" and needs to either be ended or massively fixed.

Bill Bell himself did this when Y&R went to an hour. He QUICKLY sunsetted the Brooks and Foster clans, kept Jill and Kay around (but, even here, Jill was recast with Bond Gideon and Deborah Adair...and that sort of remade the character), and built new families around two ancillary characters (Paul and Jack). In this time frame, Victor Newman came on for a brief stint...but caught on and became the pillar of yet another core family.

Honestly, I watched then...fervently. And I didn't feel like my show was losing its' identity. I found the switch exciting, well written, with the foundation well laid.

I believe that, retaining the BEST of the current cast (which I would argue is Leslie Kay, Heather Tom, and maybe Katherine Kelly Lang), and rebooting the show around them, could work. I would add Susan Flannery, but since she would like to retire, I'd actually use that as an opportunity for the reboot. I'd kill Stephanie (yup!) in a compelling way (like Vanessa Prentiss committed suicide on Y&R, but managed to have her arch-enemy Lorie Brooks stand trial for it), where Brooke has to suffer for a while. Then, I'd build around this.

Lesli Kay's Felicia would step in, with seething hatred against Brooke for what she did to Stephanie (and her family), and the Brooke-Felicia rivalry would be one cornerstone of the show. A serious and heated rivalry involving fashion would always be in the forefront. (Think Jill-Kay or Victor-Jack from Y&R. Many business stories are woven around this, and that is what Felicia-Brooke would be).

That is the only remnant of the current canvas I would keep. I think if Heather Tom's Katie is written as a woman of intelligence and integrity (much as she was introduced), she could be compelling...but only if that throughline is maintained hitherto.

The rest of the show could be all new. If introduced smartly (like Bill Bell did on Y&R all those years ago), we'd view it as a breath of fresh air, and the compelling characters and stories would see us through.

Unlike Bill Bell's reboot of Y&R, though, I honestly think some of B&B's creative team has to leave. I think there need to be massive changes in the writing and production staff.

===

But here is where I lose confidence in what I write above. I basically cannot find a single US fan who still likes the show. Yet the ratings are okay. This remains the world's most successful soap. So, even as I write all this, the pragmatist voice in me says "why mess with such success?" It's true. There seems to be a massive global audience for this dreck.

[bandbfan]

Just curious because I wasn't a Y&R viewer back then...how quickly did it happen? Are we talking half a year or what? And what happened to the old families? Deaths? Moving away?

I really like that idea. Lol thinking about the possibilities like that make me hate what we have now even more.

[DeeeDee]

Brad ending Brooke/Thorne for Brooke/Ridge.

Worst. Decision. Ever.

[MarkH]

So, here is what I take from the Cassata and Irwin book.

You need to know that Jack Abbott and Paul Williams were introduced before 1981. Paul, in particular, had played several years in a supporting role to Nikki. His storyline with April began in 1980. So, the two "seeds" of the new cast were integrated with the previous cast in 1980. 1981 was the transitional year, with basically all of the old characters leaving in 1982.

1981 story (older cast highlighted in bold, newer cast in italics).

In truth, Nikki, Paul, Douglas, and others had all been introduced in the last few years, and were kind of "changing of the guard" characters. The Brooks and Fosters were the original characters, and you can see even by 1981 there was a diminishing influence, as the Abbotts, Newmans, and Williams began to take the lead in stories.

• Peggy Brooks enters a triangle with Jack Abbott and Steve Williams
• John Abbott hires Jill Foster, and fights his attraction to her. This causes Jill to have an affair with Jack. John sees this, and leaves town for New York Jabot headquarters.
• Patty Williams starts an affair with Jack Abbott.
• Danny Romalotti befriends Paul, and starts a puppy love with Patty Williams.
• Nikki Reed takes up stripping with paid escort "Cash", who is also Kay's gigolo. Kay and Nikki were devastated when Cash was killed by the mob.
• Greg Foster and Paul Williams square off over April. April eventually learns she has a twin.
• Leslie Brooks is in Genoa City, but amnesic (from the stress of not being able to be with Lance Prentiss). She enters a custody battle with sister Lorie Brooks, who had been taking care of Leslie's son Brooks.
• Victor Newman was blackmailed by Eve Howard, who claimed her son Charles/Cole was his. Victor also suspected wife Julia of cuckholdry, since she was pregnant but he'd had a vasectomy. He imprisoned her lover, Michael Scott, in his basement dungeon. Prior to this, Julia had turned to Brock Reynolds for support.
• Vanessa Prentiss learned she had a terminal illness. She jumped off the balcony of her arch-rival Lorie Brooks, and made it look like murder.
• After hiding out in Jamaica, Kay returned to Genoa City intent on getting rid of Derek Thurstone from her company.
• Leslie performed piano at the Princess' Ball (in honor of Diana and Charles' wedding), but Lorie stole her thunder.
• Snapper donated a kidney to his son (Chuckie, who did not know Snapper was daddy)
• Jack Abbott hired Chris Brooks as a model for Jabot.
• Nikki was stalked by her neighbor, Edward. She was rescued by Paul, Danny and Jonas
• After his divorce from Julia, Douglas cheered Victor up by taking him to the Bayou, where he was entranced by stripper Nikki.
• Jill began a relationship with Andy Richards, but it ended when John Abbott returned to town.

[Darn]

I agree, that crap came out of nowhere and greatly hurt Brooke's character. Sleeping with Deacon destroyed her and she's never recovered.

[DeeeDee]

Yep.

[Cat]

Amen.

I liked Brooke & Deacon but the whole thing destroyed the character of Brooke. Irredemiably.

[Cheap21]

thats when B&B started relying heavily on controversy and shock value to push itself forward and unfortunetly for Brooke, she was the one used for most of it. On the strength of Macy, I didnt like Brooke and Thorne together but it was so stupid how they ended. The show killed off Macy and this couple went throughout alot that year in order to get together and then all of a sudden Brooke wakes up and realizes that she is in love with Ridge and not Thorne? That marriage ended way too abrupt in a blink of an eye and she was back trying to steal Ridge back. The ending of the marriage was all for nothing bc she didnt even get Ridge.

[y&r_fan]

And if Bell was smart, he would use Owen and Jackie to fill those roles (and bring on some other non-Forrester/Logans, of course).

That was the storyline that got me hooked. That and the Brooke/Deacon affair - which was entertaining at the time because IT HADN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE. But Bell took the popularity of Brooke/Deacon the wrong way. He took it to mean that we wanted NOTHING BUT Logan women boinking their in-laws.

If only Maria and Hogan could be in two places at once. *sigh*

ITA. I wish everyone would stop acting like Katie is unfixable. I don't even think she's that bad now.

And I'm also sick and tired of everyone pushing for HT to go back to Y&R. Her Victoria was dreadful and Amelia Heinle is much better in the role.

[Cheap21]

well she's never on so that helps...lol

[bandbfan]

The main reason I still have some faith in Katie is because of HT. If it were another actress that was less capable, I probably would've written that character off already.

[MarkH]

Well, Bill Bell was in two places at once (Days & Y&R, then Y&R & B&. In the 60s/70s, Phillips/Bell/Nixon were at multiple shows.

So, yes, Sheffer/Arena Bell/Hamner (I mention the latter, because Maria keeps doing it) could likely do this. Moreover, Maria actually WROTE for B&B during the good years (she takes credit for creating Sally Spectra for Bill), so I think she might actually know that show better.

I'd give them a chance. The way I'd do it is to say that "Brad needs a vacation, but will remain as EP". And then let the Y&R team do their thing. As Y&R shows, the team needs 8-12 months to repair the show. So, I'd give the team 8-12 months. If it is better, Brad can just retreat from the writing, and leave it to his new team.

I don't know if there is a place, in that scenario, for folks like Kay Alden.

I love Heather Tom, and I have in all of her roles. That said, no role was better for her--nowhere was she more alive as the indignant, damaged daughter--than as Victoria Newman.

Because Heather can play great things, the awful writing she gets damages her.

I'd like to see her, and Katie, have outstanding writing. That requires, now anyway, Y&R.

But, also, Katie is written more like a "soft victim". Victim of the gunshot. Victim of her runaway emotions for Nick Marone. Heather doesn't do "victim" well. But Amelia is softer. I think we could actually have sympathy for Katie if Amelia played her.

Meanwhile, on Y&R, Victoria is all plaintive and worried regarding Victor. She's doing more whining that fiercely rebelling. Especially with Nick all reconciled with his daddy, Victor needs a fierce offspring to butt heads with. That will never, ever be Amelia. That is just not the character she is playing. But Heather's Victoria....

When Heather played Vikki, I always believed that "Victoria is more like her daddy, Nick is more like his mommy". That clear distinction is no longer so clear for me.

Please don't be "sick and tired". I just feel that 'greatness' lies in a special alchemy of writing and performance that fit together. I believe Heather and Y&R fit together.