Here we go. I do not see Vee as writing Marceline off for any reason. Vee has a good point. Marceline has said that she stopped watching the show, on this board and others. It's been said before, if you arent watching the show, you have no right to judge it. Of course we have free will and can say anything we want, but your opinion really isnt meaningful when you don't watch the show. This issue has been tackled in threads related to OLTL, ATWT, Y&R, hell all of them. Yes we all have opinions of our soaps. My personal opinion is that Ron Carlivati has been the "Historian" at OLTL for so long that his storytelling mirrors history telling and it shows. Many of his stories resemble other stories. Does he have the talent to be a great head writer and teller of new stories for the show? Yes, but presently he's "past storytelling", and fans dont want to see it, we've seen that before. Something about Ron though is that he brilliantly tells this "past storytelling" and fans dont want to see that so criticism comes that he isnt a great writer, he isnt doing his job...etc. Ron has had some wonderful stories that werent executed with justice due to the incapabilities of his breakdown and script writers. Ron has also put out some crap, like Mendorra, which was apart of his "past storytelling" vision. Let me say that If I disagree with another poster, I will damn sure make it known, and I actually think it's more respectful to call them out by name so no one else thinks you may be alluding to them and crap gets started.

That right there miajere, is direct hypocrisy of what you were trying to tell Vee. You did it while trying to get Vee to stop. Check yourself first kid.

So true..(blushes) But it's not as though we're in the OLTL weekly thread. If she wants to talk about a writer's story lines and their construction, what's the problem? Why pick a fight? Because I'm not quite sure what's up for debate: Ron's work, people's viewing habits, their personal opinions and beliefs.

In the world where everyone's entitled to their opinions, I guess it's fair game to call people out on their lack of social graces. Marceline has watched the show in the past (decade +), so her knowledge places her above say...someone who's never watched. Some people welcome her opinion and others don't. So if someone doesn't watch they have no right to judge a show for you. I don't appreciate some forms of "police-ing" people's opinions for me.

I don't blame him for the circumstances. It was pretty obvious that something happened behind the scenes, beyond the strike, and he had to veer. But I have a personal pet peeve with writers who leave things loose and unexplained. I'd like to take a stick to Higley for some of the crap she pulled with Magical Spencer, Master of Space and Time. But I think writers owe it to their audience to wrap things up. Things like that don't make him a bad writer but they don't make him a good one either.

I'm right with you, then. I don't like things to just be left hanging, and so the Allison thing still bugs me because there was build up to nothing. If you're gonna build things up and do all this foreshadowing, don't just drop things. That's a big annoyance with me with soaps. And like you said, it doesnt make him bad or good, and I think that's a bigger issue. I hate that a person can enjoy a writer's material for months or years, and then that writer does one or two bad storylines, and so that person brands that writer a bad writer for life. I'm not saying that you do it, marceline, but I've seen others do it, and I don't get it. Maybe it's easier for someone to say that so-and-so sucks than it is for someone to say "Well, I liked this, but this was horrible" or whatever.

And for everyone else, in that last sentence, I was not necessarily talking about RC, so please, don't nobody remind me that they've hated everything RC had written. I already know you do. It was a general thought.

Some people welcome her opinion and others don't. So if someone doesn't watch they have no right to judge a show for you. I don't appreciate some forms of "police-ing" people's opinions for me.

Fair enough, but what happens when someone who doesn't watch positions themselves as "the sole truthteller" in a sea of "converts?" It was maybe two to four months in and our marceline was already declaiming about St. Ron's Church and how nobody gave her a chance to state her opinion on a show she didn't watch, so drastic snark about our "religious dogma" was necessary to paint us all with the same broad, sneering brush.

The truth is, though, she didn't come up with that because people didn't give her a chance to give her opinion, because she still posted it plenty. Nobody censored her posts. She started name-calling because she decided not enough people agreed with her.

Edited January 1, 200916 yr by Vee

How heartbreaking. No one put marceline up to "scrutiny" but herself when she started her condescending stream of posts about OLTL in fall 2007 and proudly assured us that she stopped watching before Ron Carlivati's work hit the screen, but fear not! - that would not stop her from telling us all about how we are emptyheaded simpletons who "worship" a hack. She's got only herself to blame if her own comments are brought to bear against her opinions and her weeping for the incivil tone of the discussion. I may be an [!@#$%^&*] but at least I bothered to watch what I trashed. And despite my misgivings, I never claimed that people who were willing to give, say, Chuck Pratt a shot on AMC were members of "the church of Pratt," vacant ninnies with no sense of taste.

Oh, I've written her off. And why shouldn't I? She wrote RC off before his team took over, and she's been making us pay in bandwidth for every week since. It would be one thing if she did it civilly, or acknowledged the flaw in her ratio of viewing habit to opinion, but she took a holier-than-thou tone early on when she began holding forth about "St. Ron and the Church of Carlivati" and has never deviated. My tone may be obnoxious but you won't catch me holding a pity party because other people like the wrong HW.

And there you have it.

LOL. Like whatever you wish, you pay your cable bill. and if that's how ya feel about Pratt, no one's holding you back. It's not as if Pratt's not going to collect a pay check.

If you go to the church of Carlivarti, then you go to the church of carlivarti. Who cares what writer your worshipping, it doesn't make anyone's argument less valid. You say the man is good, and he has been- good to you. I worship at First Saint Malone. My current pastor is Hogan Sheffer. They were good to me. It doesn't make me any less discriminate. I can tell you when they mucked up too, but no one can tell me what their work meant for me. I don't care how many tuned out during the Santis.

If you go to the church of Carlivarti, then you go to the church of carlivarti. Who cares what writer your worshipping, it doesn't make anyone's argument less valid. You say the man is good, and he has been- good to you. I worship at First Saint Malone. My current pastor is Hogan Sheffer. They were good to me. It doesn't make me any less discriminate. I can tell you when they mucked up too, but no one can tell me what their work meant for me. I don't care how many tuned out during the Santis.

See, that's the difference though. I don't go to the "church;" I just happen to like a lot of the man's work. I never was in the Nelson Branco OTT Praise Brigade. I really liked what RC did last fall but comparing him to Agnes Nixon or Bill Bell like Nelson was? No way. I opposed that. Nelson is a nut. Still, I really enjoyed RC. But it doesn't matter to some people, because they still paint you as a vacant fanatic on the order of Nelson Branco. And that's unfair.

And yes, I still think Michael Malone was a wonderful HW too, the best OLTL had in the 90s despite his many failures in the 00s. I still adore his older work. Yet I was able to admit when he made big mistakes, just like I can (and have) with RC. But because I liked RC at all, to some, this makes my opinion less valid and more "blind worship." Well, if we're going to take things to that level (which someone did over a year ago), then I submit that my opinion's validity is substantially more stable than that of a person who doesn't even watch the show. That's all.

If someone doesnt like soap for any reason, they will bash bash bash. I've done it in the past, and it happens. There are members who I could name, some who posted in this thread who do that. Then there are others who watched and were upset at one thing they didnt like and completly turned their back on the show, and everything associated with it, including it's head writer. It looks dumb for someone to turn there back on the show and stop watching and then come back and say they dont like the show because of something that happened yesterday. If you stopped watching, which you told the world, then you have no place in the day to day thread about whats going on because you arent watching and you cannot have anything to say about what is going on presently, rather you can only speak about the past. In my opinon, when I see Sylph, or Marceline, or Jess, people who I am fond of as poster, in the daily thread, I know some crap is about to start because these are people who dont watch the show, and that pissed people off that they come in put their "old timed" say in mix.

In the world where everyone's entitled to their opinions, I guess it's fair game to call people out on their lack of social graces. Marceline has watched the show in the past (decade +), so her knowledge places her above say...someone who's never watched. Some people welcome her opinion and others don't. So if someone doesn't watch they have no right to judge a show for you. I don't appreciate some forms of "police-ing" people's opinions for me.

Just as Marcelines knowledge puts her above someone who has never watched, people who watch every days knowledge is above her. With your reasoning, that is what is being said. Plus, using someone who has never watched as a means to make Marceline higher then someone on the watchers scale is poor, because those people do not watch. That's weak.

Edited January 1, 200916 yr by Dr. Jay S.W.

Fair enough, but what happens when someone who doesn't watch positions themselves as "the sole truthteller" in a sea of "converts?" It was maybe two to four months in and our marceline was already declaiming about St. Ron's Church and how nobody gave her a chance to state her opinion on a show she didn't watch, so drastic snark about our "religious dogma" was necessary to paint us all with the same broad, sneering brush.

The truth is, though, she didn't come up with that because people didn't give her a chance to give her opinion, because she still posted it plenty. Nobody censored her posts. She started name-calling because she decided not enough people agreed with her.

That's other people's problems if they aren't discriminate enough to ask if a poster actually saw what they are critiqing, or where they get their information.Which is really hard to do, so I'm having trouble imagining this scenario. You have to be the best bullshit artist to lie that well. People will agree with what they want to believe.

I have talked to Marceline about some scenes and what she had to report didn't come from the spoilers section. I'm going to trust she's watched them. So someone may not watch regularly, faithfully, but can indeed catch a scene when necessary. I've done this on old clips I wasn't alive to see myself.

Personally, I prefer to stick with what's on my current thread or put people on ignore. We all have dirty laundry in our past, and some very unpopular opinions we have to live with.

I love these responses. No one even touches the topic at hand.

You come and bitch about a show you don't watch and mock the people that do watch.

That boring as hell Y&R ass kissing thread is looking better every minute.

At least those people watch.

Maybe we should start a OLTL Discussion thread circa 2002-2006, that way people can just complain..

Or better yet, I will head on over to the B&B thread (a show which I no longer watch because i thought it became complete garbage) and call people Brad Bell disciples! I will trash current storylines that I don't even watch! Makes complete sense to me! And when people ask me why I am so negative? I will just respond with off topic garbage like the fact that I spent the afternoon skiiing so hopefully they won't know that I am just a angry s=it stirrer!

Edited January 1, 200916 yr by rangethatrover

I love these responses. No one even touches the topic at hand.

You come and bitch about a show you don't watch and mock the people that do watch.

That boring as hell Y&R ass kissing thread is looking better every minute.

At least those people watch.

Maybe we should start a OLTL Discussion thread circa 2002-2006, that way people can just complain..

Or better yet, I will head on over to the B&B thread (a show which I no longer watch because i thought it became complete garbage) and call people Brad Bell disciples! I will trash current storylines that I don't even watch! Makes complete sense to me! And when people ask me why I am so negative? I will just respond with off topic garbage like the fact that I spent the afternoon skiiing so hopefully they won't know that I am just a angry s=it stirrer!

I dig.

If someone doesnt like soap for any reason, they will bash bash bash. I've done it in the past, and it happens. There are members who I could name, some who posted in this thread who do that. Then there are others who watched and were upset at one thing they didnt like and completly turned their back on the show, and everything associated with it, including it's head writer. It looks dumb for someone to turn there back on the show and stop watching and then come back and say they dont like the show because of something that happened yesterday. If you stopped watching, which you told the world, then you have no place in the day to day thread about whats going on because you arent watching and you cannot have anything to say about what is going on presently, rather you can only speak about the past. In my opinon, when I see Sylph, or Marceline, or Jess, people who I am fond of as poster, in the daily thread, I know some crap is about to start because these are people who dont watch the show, and that pissed people off that they come in put their "old timed" say in mix.

Just as Marcelines knowledge puts her above someone who has never watched, people who watch every days knowledge is above her. With your reasoning, that is what is being said. Plus, using someone who has never watched as a means to make Marceline higher then someone on the watchers scale is poor, because those people do not watch. That's weak.

I'm not out to rank anyone's opinion. But I do appreciate articulation. My reasoning is I have enough time to read as many posts as I want, and if you have a aritculate/entertaining argument, I'm willing to read on. That's not weak, it's called picking and choosing what I read in my leisure time. I do the same with my tv time.

I don't have pass any judgement on anyone's opinion. And I'm certainly not planning on voting anyone here into some form of a political office. Whether I've agreed/disagreed with you in the past, I'm open to what you have to say. That is until, you lose social grace and lose manners and start addressing people like loons- and,no, I'm not talking about you so please don't run anywhere with this-

I happen to enjoy your posts as well as Marceline's. But the minute we lose our cool, the fun is over and things get personal and we don't know anything about one another.

And someone above mentioned agendas-

From my perspective here are the agendas I see:

Feminists who are absolutely disgusted with ABC and the Marty/Todd thing. THIS particular agenda I do understand. They will never forgive OLTL or Ron, Frank, and that dolt Frons. I guess I can't blame them. It is offensive to some, compelling to others)

Evangeline Fans who just never got over it!

Nash fans (I didn't realize his popularity?) Who never got over it.

Higley fans!! (ARE THERE HIGLEY FANS?) who just never got over her brilliant tenure at OLTL being cut short..

And the new one: The Y&R vs. OLTL agenda. This one is weird but it is happening at a few boards. Hell my agenda is always with the underdog so I will say Team OLTL. I don't get this one. People say it is because OLTL and Y&R are the best soaps on the air right now.. Hmmmmm. I guess.

I'm not out to rank anyone's opinion. But I do appreciate articulation. My reasoning is I have enough time to read as many posts as I want, and if you have a aritculate/entertaining argument, I'm willing to read on. That's not weak, it's called picking and choosing what I read in my leisure time. I do the same with my tv time.

I don't have pass any judgement on anyone's opinion. And I'm certainly not planning on voting anyone here into some form of a political office. Whether I've agreed/disagreed with you in the past, I'm open to what you have to say. That is until, you lose social grace and lose manners and start addressing people like loons- and,no, I'm not talking about you so please don't run anywhere with this-

I happen to enjoy your posts as well as Marceline's. But the minute we lose our cool, the fun is over and things get personal and we don't know anything about one another.

I agree that we can disagree without getting nasty, and there is a difference between passion and nastiness.

Edited January 1, 200916 yr by Dr. Jay S.W.

I agree that we can disagree without getting nasty, and there is a difference between passion and nastiness.

"Oh these nasty boys, don't mean a thing....ummmm oh these nasty boys." You must be channeling your inner Janet.

But I have to admit I enjoyed this conversation over the everday "the lighting was great today. Did you see the size of Victor's cell?"

"Oh these nasty boys, don't mean a thing....ummmm oh these nasty boys." You must be channeling your inner Janet.

But I have to admit I enjoyed this conversation over the everday "the lighting was great today. Did you see the size of Victor's cell?"

I just don't get it.

And I agree we all have our own opinions or agenda in regards to certain shows:

I never watch AMC because of the lighting and its looks. Always have hated it. My mom watched that show when I was 5-6 and even then I was like "THIS SHOW LOOKS SO CHEAP!" I need to go watch Ms. Brenda Dickson now on Y&R!

GH is another ugly ass cheap looking show- I just can't get past it. But I always leave it on after OLTL. And the dialogue does seem very intelligent. So in a rare moment, when I talk about GH here, it is about the two things I know- Its cheap looking but seems to have good dialogue. I don't bitch about the writing and actors because I miss Bobbie Spencer, the Quartermaines, and DAWN AND F-CKING DECKER! Oh I watched in 1990? Well I might as well go over there to the GH thread and antagonize the DISCIPLES OF BOB GUZA! What garbage! Damn I am just so mad about Colton Shore leaving in 1993, I could JUST SPIT! Let me head on over and talk out of my a=s for a few minutes about how bad the show is now.

Days to me is icky, boring, cheesy, soap opera . Never liked it. I am not a supercouples person. Let me go s-it on those fans and mock them too!

My point is- You are not going to see me in any of these threads MOCKING the viewers of shows I don't watch! Your damn right it is going to get personal when my (amazing ahem.) taste is called into question by some beyatch who doesn't even watch my show.