Thank Goodness that we have hopefully witnessed the death of Todd and Blair. I just wish that they would bring Evangeline back. I don't think she would support him in this trial against Marty, but he obviously needs her. The Todd & Marty storyline was beyond sick. I need Evangeline back to make me like Todd again.

Thank Goodness that we have hopefully witnessed the death of Todd and Blair. I just wish that they would bring Evangeline back. I don't think she would support him in this trial against Marty, but he obviously needs her. The Todd & Marty storyline was beyond sick. I need Evangeline back to make me like Todd again.

Ron couldn't write Evangeline. Look what he's done with the rest of Malone's creations.

Anyone could write Evangeline. She had no personality.

Anyone could write Evangeline. She had no personality.

CLASSIC! And Amen. The entire show revolved around her too., So I stopped watching for 3 years or so.

Oh and I feel the rumblings of the next Tarty earthquake right here in this thread.

Have any of you seen the show this week? Its been excellent.

Zendallfan- Do you like anything about OLTL, at all? Excuse me, attall? (Viki's way) And not the sets or lighting.

It's not all about semantics. SOD can be held responsible for the words used in this article but Ron, Valentini, Frons, Sweeney and the network are responsible for what they are putting on screen. Acting like it would be less offensive if they just described it differently is disingenuous and insulting especially if the scenes haven't aired. You came to your conclusions. Everyone else deserves the right to come to theirs. And those in power will be judged accordingly.

Woah, woah, woah! :-) I agree with you, Marceline, and I am not a fan of this story at all. Just trying to play Devil's Advocate.

I'm all about the right for everyone to come to their own opinions, and (in fact) welcome it. If there was something in the tone of my original post that suggested "Oh, you other fans don't understand what they're really trying to say here", that so wasn't what I meant to do. (Although re-reading my post, I can see where that subtext might have been misconstrued)

I'm just saying the way everybody involved (ABC, OLTL and SOD) throw around statements like "It's not rape" is completely lazy and irresponsible. And the fact that they continue to do so after everything that transpired over that insidious "Todd and Marty finally make love!" promo is completely appallling.

Sorry if something else came across in my original post.

Woah, woah, woah! :-) I agree with you, Marceline, and I am not a fan of this story at all. Just trying to play Devil's Advocate.

I'm all about the right for everyone to come to their own opinions, and (in fact) welcome it. If there was something in the tone of my original post that suggested "Oh, you other fans don't understand what they're really trying to say here", that so wasn't what I meant to do. (Although re-reading my post, I can see where that subtext might have been misconstrued)

I'm just saying the way everybody involved (ABC, OLTL and SOD) throw around statements like "It's not rape" is completely lazy and irresponsible. And the fact that they continue to do so after everything that transpired over that insidious "Todd and Marty finally make love!" promo is completely appallling.

Sorry if something else came across in my original post.

You know what I'm starting to sense: The individual stories can be judged on their merits: Some like the Todd-Marty story and others don't. Some like Greenlee on AMC and others don't.

But the PROMOS are what are really inflaming the viewers. "Real Greenlee", "finally make love". I wonder if fan reaction would be more temperate...more wait-and-see-and-judge-on-merits if this promotional machine were less lurid, less insensitive?

IMHO the todd-marty thing could be an amazing story if told right.

its just not.

it almost is, but its just not.

Woah, woah, woah! :-) I agree with you, Marceline, and I am not a fan of this story at all. Just trying to play Devil's Advocate.

I'm all about the right for everyone to come to their own opinions, and (in fact) welcome it. If there was something in the tone of my original post that suggested "Oh, you other fans don't understand what they're really trying to say here", that so wasn't what I meant to do. (Although re-reading my post, I can see where that subtext might have been misconstrued)

I'm just saying the way everybody involved (ABC, OLTL and SOD) throw around statements like "It's not rape" is completely lazy and irresponsible. And the fact that they continue to do so after everything that transpired over that insidious "Todd and Marty finally make love!" promo is completely appallling.

Sorry if something else came across in my original post.

Ahh. Well then I clearly took it wrong. My apologies.

It's almost funny. We fight about this tooth and nail on these boards but nobody cares. If this were happening on a primetime or cable show people would be buzzing about it but its a soap, so its essentially a tree falling in the woods.

This Todd/Marty story (and this is just my personal opinion) would have sold better if we had understood Todd in the first arc of the story. Trevor played it so vague, and the writing was so obtuse from Todd's perspective, that we didn't know if he was plotting revenge or his own redemption by holding Marty. If there was some window into what Todd was thinking and feeling throughout this, maybe (and that's a HUUUUUUGE maybe) I might be more on board.

I don't disagree with the statement that now we're getting great pay-off and wonderful performances. That was never in question. It's just the message this sends out to the world about rape, rapists, and their victims, is completely horrific. And honestly, if they had told this story about a rape victim with amnesia and their rapist with two characters where we didn't see the horrific act play out over YEARS back in the early nineties, you would never see this outcry.

Of course, like you said, Marceline, all this debate and discussion on the boards, and the ratings don't show any of it. Going up or down from week to week by a tenth of a point proves that, like you said, it's a tree falling in the forest. If there was some gigantic jump in the ratings (or plummet) then maybe one side of his argument would be proven right. But from what I can tell, this story isn't doing much good or bad for the show in the end.

It's certainly generating a lot of online debate. But in terms of Nielsen, it's no different than any other story.

Of course, like you said, Marceline, all this debate and discussion on the boards, and the ratings don't show any of it. Going up or down from week to week by a tenth of a point proves that, like you said, it's a tree falling in the forest. If there was some gigantic jump in the ratings (or plummet) then maybe one side of his argument would be proven right. But from what I can tell, this story isn't doing much good or bad for the show in the end.

It's certainly generating a lot of online debate. But in terms of Nielsen, it's no different than any other story.

I look at it this way Ron will never be OLTL's best writer but he sure as hell might be it's last and that's fine with me.

Woah, woah, woah! :-) I agree with you, Marceline, and I am not a fan of this story at all. Just trying to play Devil's Advocate.

I'm all about the right for everyone to come to their own opinions, and (in fact) welcome it. If there was something in the tone of my original post that suggested "Oh, you other fans don't understand what they're really trying to say here", that so wasn't what I meant to do. (Although re-reading my post, I can see where that subtext might have been misconstrued)

I'm just saying the way everybody involved (ABC, OLTL and SOD) throw around statements like "It's not rape" is completely lazy and irresponsible. And the fact that they continue to do so after everything that transpired over that insidious "Todd and Marty finally make love!" promo is completely appallling.

Sorry if something else came across in my original post.

LOL! You appear to have been "hoisted on thine own petard (is that the phrase?)" Threw your words (particularly semantics) out there a little too casually my dear. But you also showed how easily that can happen.

I am sorry guys but I am loving all of this.

It is very compelling for me to watch Marty sift through all of this- her soul searching- this is pretty complex and heightened drama. Starr's reaction to her father's past and present- Cole's reaction to what Todd as done in the past and now- The Tea element.

No, this isn't simple soap crap. Its not B&B with one cliche after another with terrible performances. Its not GH with all this constant mog garbage.

No other show is like OLTL right now in terms of the psychological drama and I am grateful that they are mining some pretty disturbing depths.

One thing I have noticed is that Susan Haskell is not everyone's cup of tea. And if you don't like her style of acting, the character, ect, this story is NOT going to work.

However, I have always liked Marty and I think Susan Haskell pulled off some damn fine performances in the last month and I stand by that the emmy is hers. Not Judith Chapman's!

Its not for everyone I guess.

One thing I am VERY unsure about is that Marty "realizes that Todd DIDN'T RAPE HER AGAIN??"

OH YES HE DID!!!

I am not offended or disgusted but I strongly disagree and I am very curious how this plays out and why the F-CK Marty would think that.

Speaking as a rape victim... I would hate to think that I would ever lose my memory and be in a similar situation as Marty. However, rape is forcing someone to submit to sexual intercourse. Marty was compliant, not forced. It doesn't matter whether he lied to her. Todd's sin was deceit, not rape. Todd also offered Marty her freedom (although he still didn't imply that she had family to return to), so I think it was a captive falling in love with her captor. Did Todd kidnap Marty? No, he rescued her... Did Todd deceive Marty? Yes. Did Todd force her to stay with him? No. Did Todd rape her? No. Is there a criminal presedence (sp) here? Unsure. Is there a civil case here? I think it's more likely, but still unsure. What I'm sure about is OLTL has risen from the ashes and has caused much debate in this original s/l. Carlivatti has succeeded. Although, the fictional Marty will realize this, it is still a bitter pill. So IA, OLTL is must see T.V. and not disgusting, IMO.

It's a strange position for me: I hate the spoilers but when the shows air, I find the story to be fine in its handling of Marty so far. We'll see if that changes in the next two weeks, because I find the idea of Todd beating the rape charge unthinkable. I also agree there's been no exploration of Todd, which is a huge blunder. Right now this whole thing is an albatross dragging down otherwise good scenes on an otherwise good show, IMHO.

Well I'm not going to forget the fact that for days now Marty has vowed to get revenge on Todd, obesessing over it, and asking Andrew about what she did to him so she could do sort of the same thing to Todd,,,,,,sooo I'm going to wait for this all to play out. I have a small theory where this is all going, but I could be wrong.

Anyone could write Evangeline. She had no personality.

Amen!