The Politics Thread

[Wendy]

Funny the talk is still about abortion here [and in elections] because, in watching The Late Show with Stephen Colbert on YouTube last night, Stephen mentioned that, despite so many polls that are screaming about Dump beating Biden, a Quinnipiac poll was released showing Biden ahead of Dump by a considerable margin - with women.

I'm not dumb or arrogant enough to believe that Dump cannot have a chance to win again; the American electorate at large is that stupid.

But, as has been said here again and again, women are still clearly angry at having their rights taken away. As much as the media is pushing for a horse race in the name of the Almighty Dollar and trying to sell the border and immigration as an albatross for Biden and Democrats, well...abortion affects the "every day life" of women voters.

Immigrants trying to cross the border for better lives, not so much.

Still, the media falls for "THE POLLS!" Every. Single. Time. This despite the fact that polls massively overstated GOP wins for the past two or three election cycles and with Democrats continuing to over perform. It is mere wish-fulfillment fantasy for the media, seemingly wanting that Dump drama to raise ratings and the financial bottom line.

Because - God forbid - the news be about informing people and not trying to create news. (Which is why news divisions under the "Entertainment" banner at the networks have forever tainted what used to be a dignified profession.)

[Juliajms2]

I love that Biden called Trump a "sick f*ck". That made my day.

I'm not so much worried about immigration as a presidential election issue. I'm more concerned about it on a policy level. We're on the edge of having the kind of demographic issues (aging population and falling below replacement numbers) that Japan and China are having. Meanwhile, a possible solution is knocking on our door (and freezing on our streets), but we are so polarized we can't have a rational national conversation about it.

I would love one politician to just say something like "we need more people to work, have children and support our social security and medicare system or there will be serious consequences. At the same time we need realistic limits on immigration because societies can only absorb so many people before instability becomes an issue. We need experts to help us find the right balance and then we need political compromise to make it happen."

I would pay to see someone in power say that, even if they did it on their way out the door.

[Khan]

I know I'm as uneducated as they come about these things, but I just don't understand why we need any limits on immigration.

[DramatistDreamer]

Because the immigrants are predominantly brown and non-European. 

I remember in the early 1990s, a teacher bringing in an issue of, Time or Newsweek with the cover story “The Browning of America” for discussion and I understood right then and there that America had a preoccupation with the nation becoming a predominantly nonwhite country. It’s the reason why, despite lionizing Reagan for his rhetoric and voodoo economics, Republicans are still irked with him over his one-time amnesty of undocumented immigrants (no one talks about the fact that undocumented immigrants from Ireland comprised a large number of undocumented workers then and well into the beginning of the 21st century). It’s also one of the reasons that no one mentions the number of pregnant Russian women were flocking to the United States to have their babies, conferring them with birthright citizenship, (until Russia invaded Ukraine and sanctions began) despite right-wing activists’ constant attempts to paint a picture of “anchor babies” as only coming from Mexican mothers.

It’s ironic that limits are discussed (whatever that means) without having an honest conversation about genuine immigration policy reform, which would entail a discussion about why meat plants are allowed to use child labor of unaccompanied minors who came across the Southern border or why so many businesses and wealthy people use the “cheap” labor of undocumented workers. That would mean exploring legal pathways to formal residency and citizenship, which would effectively mean an end to labor exploitation and rock-bottom wages. The argument that pathways to legalization would encourage more border crossings doesn’t hold weight, primarily because the pathways would be for people who have been here for decades, working, having income tax extracted, while ineligible for a refund and raising their American born and/or childhood arrived children. The people screaming for small government don’t want the necessary personnel to be hired so that paperwork for work and student visas can be processed in a timely fashion so that maybe people can actually go back and forth, with an assurance that they won’t have to worry about getting detained on either side. Fixing immigration policy (or lack thereof) sounds like a good talking point but most of the people with the means to do so aren’t truly interested because the status quo is benefiting a lot of well-heeled and well connected individuals.

Japan and China are homogenous societies that have spurned physical differences. China has a billion population, so it hasn’t yet reached crisis point, although their issues don’t have as much to do with a lack of immigration as it does with their preference for male boys over females leading to a demographics disaster with a shortfall of marriageable women. Japan, with a much smaller population is in full-blown demographics crisis. They are allowing some immigrants from Southeast Asia to study nursing, specifically in geriatrics to take care of their aging population but they still don’t want to offer citizenship. They are just now deciding to offer some workers residency so that the workers can bring spouses, children and possibly parents, as many nursing students have expressed doubts about staying beyond the minimum of years if they cannot bring family.

Edited February 4 by DramatistDreamer

[Vee]

LOL:

 

[DRW50]

They know they've already done the damage they needed to do, with help from the press. 

[Vee]

Republicans in Disarray:

 

Meanwhile:

 

Ronna McDaniel has also resigned from the RNC, having been shivved by Trump.

[DRW50]

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/07/nikki-haley-nevada-primary-trump-2024

Nikki Haley lost to, essentially, "I don't like any of these people."

(Trump is only competing in the Nevada caucus, which he will easily win)

I despise Trump, but Nikki Haley is no better. Seeing her completely fail and keep failing before she inevitably drops out in a few weeks and pledges eternal loyalty to Trump (again) is a brief moment of amusement. This is even more amusing after NBC and SNL humiliated themselves (again) by having her do an excruciating and oddly lengthy cameo on the most recent episode where she and their resident Trump roasted each other. 

[DramatistDreamer]

On the eve, of their general election, at least a dozen people die in two explosions in Pakistan. This is reminiscent of the 1990s. Unfortunately, violence has been ratcheting up in recent weeks, as the military (who has been in control, regardless of party in office) has been clamping down this year’s opposition parties. 

[Juliajms2]

Money and social stability to start with.  The United States actually does pretty well because we have a long history of immigration. We take more than a million legally every year. Every society has a breaking point when it comes to the number of foreign born people it can handle. There is quite a bit of sociological evidence supporting that. 

Germany had a difficult time absorbing the million people they took during Angela Markel's tenure. Meanwhile, that wasn't a yearly occurrence and it was a close one. Remember all the sexual assaults and cover ups that happened during that time? That helped strengthen the far right. At the same time Germany needed people and in a generation or two it will probably be seen as a good decision.

On the money front we either can't or won't help the vast numbers of poverty stricken immigrants coming in right now. We have a horrible housing crunch on our hands with not a lot of political will to address it.  Despite what the Republicans say the U.S. is not generous with immigrants. We leave people to sink or swim. I find it ugly and cruel. Keeping asylum seekers from working is a horrible policy. The only people who benefit from that are MAGAs who like watching others suffer.

Anyway, my point is we should be figuring out how many we can realistically take without it being a partisan issue, but we won't. Democrats will insist that the only issue is racism and Republicans cannot admit that we need more immigrants. So at best we'll end up with some political compromise that doesn't solve the problem. It's infuriating to me.

 

[DramatistDreamer]

The BBC just did a story on the special counsel’s report and Biden’s response, immediately highlighting a slip up Biden made, mixing up the president of Egypt with the president of Mexico. I cringed.

[Khan]

That's why I think it's so important that people push back against the media and point up Trump's own, apparent mental and physical decline.  Biden might be a "well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory," but I'll take that over a malignant narcissist with an authoritarian bent anyday.

[DramatistDreamer]

Of course.
The irony however, was not lost on me that the slip up was following Biden’s pushback against the council’s allegations of the classified documents found being were a result of age related memory problems. Unfortunately the Trump cult are blind to his obvious lack of character, lack of discernment and lack of intelligence. The Biden coalition tends to check for things like these. Hopefully this incident will fade…and quickly.

[DRW50]

It's given the media even more incentive to talk about this issue constantly and act like they are breaking something shocking due to the rubes not knowing about worries over Biden's age and memory (even though this has been brought up all the time for five years). The media doesn't care about any of these issues with Trump, because he makes them more money and they still see him as funny and wild and free. 

I saw various right wing accounts going on about how "even CNN" has covered this report and the age issues constantly today...another reminder of the power of their victim bubble where they can lie that CNN has been anything but right wing for many, many years. This led to an article with Paul Begala going on about how terrible the whole thing is, how Biden handled it horribly, and "joking" that he is a Democrat because he slept like a baby - waking up every two hours after wetting the bed. I have long disliked and resented Begala and Carville, who last had any merit over 30 years ago (and they were greatly helped by Ross Perot) yet never ignore an opportunity to shove their faces in front of a camera. 

It's clear that the media has a narrative and Trump as their tough hero (as CNN reminded us today "his best day of 2024") is top of the list. They hate us and they hate this country. Whether the public agrees, I don't know. 

I wish Biden hadn't run again, but unfortunately, I also don't think anyone else would be in a better position (no, not even Gavin Newsom, or Gretchen Whitmer, who would be torn apart by the same machine in place against Biden). It's hard to imagine any Democrat scraping through this year. Any win will be extremely narrow, but a win is a win.

I also hope Democrats realize just how many people are still struggling financially and no number of headlines about how the economy is better will change their minds.

[Vee]

I don't know anyone but Biden who can run and win this race. If there was someone else I'd consider it, but there isn't and I'm fine with him doing it.  I don't accept the Beltway frame where the whining media demanded someone else run out of boredom and then claimed 'everyone' in America or in the party wants him to bow out, which just isn't true. They cherrypick polls and lean on the Very Online for that take, and as always it doesn't reflect actual reality or the climate in the party. Then their idea of 'Democratic' pundits is usually far left burnouts or 'disruptors' who never got over the Bernie primaries like the Cracked guy, Will Stancil, that nut Jeet Heer, etc. Or Dean Phillips! Being interviewed as a guy with his finger on the pulse! And then they act like this is the voice of the party.

In any event, once again I feel this furor is coming a bit too early for them to make it last. We've got 8+ months to go.

Edited February 10 by Vee