The Politics Thread

[MissLlanviewPA]

 

Without sounding too stupid, I HATE how Fox News made money on the idea that all blonde women are dumb, industinguisable robotic conservative Republican apologists. There ARE smart, hot,  young, non-generic looking blonde progressive Democratic women out there. I should know. I'm one of them.

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 (Hopefully!) Just give me time to become famous and do good in the world.  

 

Oh believe me, I don't always. But I feel like someone has to. "Nonetheless, she persisted" and all that.

 

Choosing between Trump and Pence is like choosing between projectile vomiting and explosive diarrhea. I don't particularly want either of them, but I'll take the latter in each case. (Sorry, I know that's graphic.) 

Edited February 17, 2017 by MissLlanviewPA

[DRW50]

 

Oh definitely. They do use women and pit women against each other. And pieces of [!@#$%^&*] like Bill Maher did the same by promoting the vile Ann Coulter as his special friend for years on Politically incorrect. I don't mean to demean most women in journalism by saying what I say about Kelly. I just think that was ultimately her role - she was also good at feigning objectivity and intelligence for a while, which meant she was a "challenge," rather than, say, another Elisabeth Hasselback (ugh), but even that has its limits for the men who watch that channel to perv. She hit that limit with her Trump conflicts, and I think that would have sped her departure even if Gretchen Carlson hadn't destroyed the last shreds of Roger Ailes' standing at the network. 

 

(and of course Gretchen Carlson epitomizes what you describe with their network)

[Vee]

It's not that we want Pence. It's that when faced with Trump, Pence or a mushroom cloud I think you have to go with door #2. Keeping Trump is increasingly not an option, nor would I ever choose him over Pence frankly.

 

Even ol' Morning Joe has turned - they're now openly advocating for "President Pence". I guess they didn't get a Mar-a-Lago invite.

[DRW50]

 

I didn't mean you or anyone here. I meant the media in general, who have led millions to slaughter (literally) for their stern father issues (which he fits to a tee), and the public, who turn a blind eye to just about anything Republican Presidents do unless it gets really really really bad. If we get Pence I just want people to prepare for 8 years of him and his hate campaigns. Of course I realize the alternative is likely death, so I don't think anyone here is being glib or not taking it seriously.

Edited February 17, 2017 by DRW50

[Vee]

Again, you're assuming the media is suddenly going to fall in love with Pence a la McCain or Bush and I just don't see that. First, that was a long time ago, and today even manufactured guys like Rubio, Christie, etc. have fallen on hard times. Even Ryan has lost a lot of his lustre for the media. Pence has never had a fraction of that charisma or media support. Pence can't get elected once, let alone twice.

 

Also, the public is pretty broad - plenty protested against Bush. Plenty more loved Obama (and the other half hated him), plenty more than that came out against Trump. The whole public doesn't fall to their knees for Republicans, otherwise we wouldn't be here. We're the public too.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Vee

[DRW50]

 

Plenty protested against Bush but he still won a comfortable reelection in 2004. It took a collapse on multiple levels to change the public's mindset, and even then, they only gave Obama 2 years before they kneecapped him in 2010. 

 

I assume the worst of the media and I always will. Maybe I shouldn't, but I just can't change that at this point. If Trump wasn't so openly hostile to them I think we'd be in a very different place right now in terms of how he's seen. They walked over hot coals for Republicans for decades because up to Trump most of them kissed ass. 

[MissLlanviewPA]

 

This. 

[JaneAusten]

I actually kind of agree with Carl. And not trying to discount what your saying Vee. The danger is the progressives will be so relieved to be rid of Trump, his exit will look like a huge victory and the people who I believe are awake right now might just be willing to ride things out until the next election. With Trump in place I do think 2018 is going to be a huge turnout for progressives finally. With him gone people might believe the victory has been won and stay home. After watching how the press, media, Washington and many people in her own party demonized Hillary, I am not sure I have the confidence people will stick with it. They are still blaming her for Trump.

 

On the flip side hopefully this election has woken up the silent majority who I think in some sense realize now that they are the ones responsible for Obama getting so little support after 2010. Lord knows I have been critical of Obama at times, but I'd like to think I hold my politicians accountable, but I would never vote against him, never not show up because I am "not excited" or he's not perfect. I know a good public servant, someone who wants to do good when I see it. So many of these idiotic progressives need a rock star like Obama not a solid hard working non charismatic leader like Hillary Clinton. Not to say Obama was not all those things but he has the rock star quality, charisma that Clinton has lacked for years and people in our party need that extra umph to motivate them to vote.(why I can not take millennials seriously as voters) That's exactly how we ended up with Bruce Rauner as Governor in Illinois a billionaire do nothing right to work loving republican over Pat Quinn, a non charismatic but well intentioned democrat who inherited a mess and tried to do the right thing. The election Rauner won only saw a 28% turnout in Illinois.

 

[Vee]

 

Yeah, no, I'm sorry but I've heard this line many times and it makes me see red with rage. I'm not angry at you, I just am infuriated by this.

 

It might be great for far left 'progressive' ideology in theory for us all to suffer and possibly die under Trump so we can then (also in theory, as always) rise up and take names, but that's the kind of thinking Susan Sarandon was espousing last fall and again on TV the other day. It never, ever, ever works out like that, and it's been tried before. More importantly, we could all be fuckin' nuked in the meantime. America could lapse entirely into an authoritarian nightmare. The best you can hope for is that the minorities among us will be systematically targeted - and while Pence is a bigoted fundamentalist, he is not likely to employ actual Nazis. Yet the far left mindset never really worries too much about the minorities when factoring in these great progressive revolutions that can finally happen if we just keep the worst possible options in place for a little bit longer to destroy the country.

 

I am not saying you are incorrect about the inherent and well-known difficulties of keeping focus and strength up without a common enemy; we've all been there before and seen it before. I am sure focus will flag without Trump, and that is something we will always have to be vigilant on - this is not the first time we have been faced with that problem. But it may be the last, unless Trump goes. There is really no contest AFAIC. Keeping a grassroots effort strong is not nearly as important to me as actually accomplishing ridding the nation of something which is destroying it more and more by the second and could literally wipe us out.

[DRW50]

I don't think JA was necessarily saying she wants Trump to stay, just that without him people likely won't be motivated. I don't want him to stay. I know that he's a danger to the world and to us. I hope he resigns ASAP, and we never hear from him again. I just worry at how many underestimate Pence and the likely public and press support he will get. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by DRW50

[marceline]

Let's be honest, there aren't any good options here. This country is awash in ignorance on both the right and the left. Trump has shown us just how utterly corrupt and devoid of decency the GOP is all the way through and lazy people who need a rock star to vote will continue to sabotage us along with the purity progs. With Trump or without we're looking at the end of the Republic.

[Vee]

I don't believe that's the case without Trump. It can be if we're not careful, but with him it's guaranteed. Without him I think there are always things we have to change and ways we have to do better, but I agree with Obama - we're bigger and better than this, for all the rest of our ugliness.

[DramatistDreamer]

Startling to think, that at this point in Obama's first term, Congress had passed President Obama's $1 trillion infrastructure bill, expanded children's health insurance, approved the Lily Ledbetter bill which prevented pay discrimination and started the work toward financial regulation, not to mention laying out the building blocks for what would become known as the ACA.

 

G.O.P.’s Grand Visions for Congress Now Look Like a Mirage

 

In comparison, what has Trump done by now, beside try to deregulate everything and put out some failed executive orders?

[Vee]

[JaneAusten]

I am in no way advocating for keeping Trump. But the danger is once he's gone, Pence will look like a relief. And I can just see the media and press calling him some sort of savior not because policywise he is any better but because he won't attack THEM.

I believe it. But this is a distraction from Russia