Someone fire Goutman!!!! Someone fire Pissant......Get this two fired NOW!!

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Oh, and I've pretty much accepted that it will be Goutman and Passanante who will be taking ATWT to its grave.

[Soapsuds]

I wish people on this board would call in and let their voices be heard. Tell them that Goutman is doing an awful job and he needs to be fired. Just so they know how we are feeling.

[Khan]

With all due respect, Y&RWorldTurner, I'd have to disagree. From both a creative and ratings standpoint, I'd say SEARCH FOR TOMORROW, and not AW, was the weakest P&G soap. As chaotic as AW must've been behind the scenes, I've heard it was even worse at SEARCH. (EDGE OF NIGHT, which was in the same boat ratings-wise as SEARCH, was more stable and arguably as good as ATWT or GL, but just had trouble getting affiliate clearances.) It wasn't until the Swajeski/Laibson regime was dismantled, IMO, that AW was beyond hope.

[LoyaltoAMC]

You're absolutely right! The ratings decline has little do with decline in the quality of the show. Could it be better? Yes, but that's not why the show is tanking. These shows are all in their sunset years. And the domino effect from Y&R's spiralling downward has only served to speed up the inevitable. That's why B&B is recording record lows, and why ATWT is. I don't think Goutman and Passanante are going anywhere. Agnes Nixon and Claire Labine as co-HWs couldn't save this show, or any other for that matter. I have to laugh when I read that Hogan will get Y&R's ratings up, or that Pratt might do the same for AMC. People have tuned out for good. That's just the reality.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Oh, no I agree on Search, but I was referring to the last 3 remaining P&G soaps. Out of GL, ATWT, and AW, AW was probably the weakest link and the one that had the most behind the scenes chaos.

[nicknack]

IMO, all these explanations (Y&R is going down, it's the holidays) doesn't explain why ATWT would suddenly be lower than GL in the demos. If it's an overarching effect, wouldn't both soaps fall to the same degree, but still retain their ranking among each other?

[MarkH]

Well you know I 100% agree with you. Every word. Hogan Sheffer will NOT boost Y&R's ratings. What he might do (50% chance, given his track record) is CREATIVELY improve the show. That will not help the ratings AT ALL, but it might make us dying-out-band-of-die-hard-viewers a little happier during this twilight time.

Most soaps fell last week--so it was a kind of across-the-board thing. In my opinion, we shouldn't t make too much out of the ranking shifts. Let me say you are right in one sense...if ATWT went from rank 2-3 to rank 7-8 in a single week...especially on a "high N" category like households or 18-49 viewers, that WOULD likely be meaningful. But when all the soaps are pretty much tied in the middle-1s range in HH, these little ranking shifts from week to week are nothing but what is called "meaningless random variation".

To get the big picture, you should look at something like season-ratings and follow them. And then you would see what the REAL trend is (down down down no matter what happens on screen).

[SteveFrame]

Excellent post.

AW went through 40 HW/writing changes after Harding Lemay left the show on May 11, 1979, & 9 EP changes after Paul Rauch left in 1983.

With every writer came a new shift in direction and usually a new villian who wracked havoc on the town of Bay City - or a new family - a new set of charactes - a new history for some other characters.

I actually felt Tom King was doing a good job after Lemay left in 1979, but toward teh end of 1979 NBC wanted big changes for all it's main 3 soaps - The Doctors, Another World & Days.

All 3 got new writers or EP's and they made big changes to the shows. AW only got a co-head writer but the changes were still felt big time on AW in 1980 esp. with all the Texas characters on AW early on.

AW and The Doctors neither really ever recovered from the big changes. Days successfully did when Pat Falken Smith and her crew, Margaret DePriest and Sherri Anderson were brougth on. Both Smith and Anderson had worked on Days in the 70's under William J. Bell and knew the show. They helped to save it even though they did it by changing the face of the show almost completely.

I totally agree that way too much credit is given to Frankie Frame's death for the death of Another World. She was not that important of a character - not to be given the credit for the end of the show. AW's death was caused by too many production and writing changes and way too many visions. It's the same thing happening to Days all over again right now.

A show cannot survive in a constant state of transition from one writer to the next. That is what killed AW. If truth be known if any deaths had a real impact on the death of Another World it would be the deaths of Steve Frame and Mary Matthews in 1975 and the death of John Randolph in 1979. Those triggered the end of the Matthews Family and thus set up for the loss of the identity that was Another World. AW still did well in the ratings for awhile but the loss of those characters and the loss of the actors portraying them really hurt AW in later years.

[august1229]

IMO the only way to save these shows is something no one would want to do. They need to clear out all the characters and actors and create new ones.

An example: Emily having an affair with a younger man could be good and soapy. But they won't bring on a new character and his family to do it. So she winds up sleeping with a guy whose brother and father she's already slept with.

The characters have been around too long and had too many past stories with the other characters - there's nothing left to do with them.

ATWT could benefit a lot by writing off Holden and Lily, and Jack and Carly - let them fade to be living happily ever after and come back on holidays. Then a new family could freshen up the place. They tried to bring in another Coleman - they ought to bring in the whole family - they don't have a long past history and the characters wouldn't be worn out.

[P.J.]

But the problem is---Tom and Margo's anniversary wasn't "an event". It was a plot point. Cyndi Lauper was "an event", and TIIC couldn't even figure out a way to write it for anyone other than Nuke.

And STILL, Goutman pounds his chest, "going with his gut" and letting his vision rule the ATWT landscape. With the audience LEAVING in droves, he needs to get his head out of his ass, QUICK. I don't think the Y&R/B&B ratings are to blame for historic lows on ATWT. I think it contributes, but the show has been in upheaval all year. Goutman KNEW departures like Bryce, McCouch, Byrne, Landon and McClain would hurt the show, and he did NOTHING to try and counterbalance it. When established stars like that leave, you don't put the show in the hands of a lot of newbies (Ali/Chris/Casey/Sophie/Janet/Liberty) that a lot of the core audience hasn't had time to really to learn to care about.

[kelly1142]

This show was so much better during the strike. It wasn't perfect, but at least there were varied interactions, the story bubbles were popped, things were more interesting.

I took it off my TIVO a while ago. I have no desire to watch Maul and the continuing destruction of Paul Ryan, or to watch Emily sleeping with her son's teenage brother, or Carly/Holden, or watch them waste the potential of Nuke.

So I'm just not going to.

[dragonflies]

Yeah I stopped watching the show over a month ago. I just couldn't take the character assassination of Carly any longer

ATWT has become unrecognizable as a whole IMO

[GHJunkie4Life]

Pretty much have to agree with MarkH.

Its the society and times we live in. People simply don't take soaps that seriously anymore. They're no longer the "it" thing to watch. Shows like Greys and other shows on Primetime are what matter and what people turn out in droves to watch.

And I don't want to offend anyone or depress those who honestly are hoping that ATWT changes for whatever their reasons may be but do you really think this thread will accomplish much? Other than provide some release?

I mean I think if most people were truly that angry/upset with the current writers then we'd all be calling that number. Or we'd be emailing them day in and day out. However I just don't see this vocal outcry against the current writers.

Last week Daytime as a whole fell. A general across the board drop. I don't see how it can be pinned on the writers when I think there's hundreds of reasons that impact what's going on today.

[WorldTurner]

What good does calling that number do when it goes to the Brooklyn studio where CG and JP are based? Do you really think they are going to fire themselves? And besides CG has said he doesn't care what the fans think because he has "instincts" There are plenty of fans who have been writing to CBS and PGP by snail mail and voicing their displeasure for a long time now and nothing happens! You may not have seen it since this isn't a very active ATWT board, but there is a vocal outcry.

I do think it can be blamed on the writers and CG should take part of the blame. It's the stories that are turning off the viewers. They are the people responsible for the stories. Yes all soaps are in trouble but ATWT has dropped farther than others. And at least some of the others are making changes in their writers. Some may not be the right choices but at least they are doing something. ATWT is doing nothing! ATWT has been dropping for months and continually hitting new lows. This isn't the first week it dropped.

[Soapsuds]

What I have bolded in big letters is the major problem. Where has it gotten ATWT....almost dead last in the ratings. Is this man blind to what is going on? Is his ego so big that he is willing to have ATWT cancelled to prop his madness? The man is a cancer to ATWT! He is slowly and painfully letting ATWT die with no help from Barbara Bloom, who thinks the show is in great shape. Her interview on SOW proves Barbara Bloom has no clue what ATWT is all about.

Is it so hard to get a writing change and a new EP? Every other show as you say has gotten that opportunity except ATWT. I wish someeone would do something. Goutman needs to be out on his ass without a job. He and Pissant can can produce and write his "instincts' on HBO or Cinemax for all I care.