Yesterday's episode was pretty much beautiful in every way. I'd never seen Carol laugh/smile before that scene with Alfie and Patrick, so I loved that, but then to watch everything crash down around her for the rest of the episode was just heartbreaking. LC is incredible. No other word for it. And everyone else...Palmer, St. Clement, Owen, even the kids, they were all flawless.

I hate to compare US soaps to UK soaps because I don't believe they're meant to be compared at all, but I just have to say...this is the type of episode that we'll never see on our soaps at all, and I mean now and also in the past. The format, the make-up of the UK soaps, especially EE and Corrie, allow for this more than any other type of show I've ever seen. An American soap could have told the same story (well -- probably not the same story, I can't see one of our younger characters suddenly dying from something as "mundane" as alcohol poisoning) very well and done everything right, but I guess that's why I can't compare the two. They're different, but both can be very effective in ways that are inherent to their particular formats. I guess my point is I really really really wish the US had at least one show that's cut from the same cloth as EE.

I forgot to mention something, I'm glad we're seeing Pat consistently on the show again. She's just supporting Janine and the Jackson's, but a year or so ago, I think they would have had Bianca say some throwaway line about Pat taking the kids out or something.

I think by next year, Pat deserves her own story.

I'd love to see Pat get a story again. A very strong story. She certainly has the past for one.

Until then, like you said, it's great to see her in such a strong matriarchal role. I am especially glad that they figured out how to write for her while still encompassing Bianca and Carol. This means she doesn't have a big role, but she is there as a solid support, and yet we also see some hints of her own grief. It's better than episode after episode of Bianca shouting for "Nana Pat" to do this and do that, then telling us a day later that she's off on holiday yet again.

Yesterday's episode was pretty much beautiful in every way. I'd never seen Carol laugh/smile before that scene with Alfie and Patrick, so I loved that, but then to watch everything crash down around her for the rest of the episode was just heartbreaking. LC is incredible. No other word for it. And everyone else...Palmer, St. Clement, Owen, even the kids, they were all flawless.

I hate to compare US soaps to UK soaps because I don't believe they're meant to be compared at all, but I just have to say...this is the type of episode that we'll never see on our soaps at all, and I mean now and also in the past. The format, the make-up of the UK soaps, especially EE and Corrie, allow for this more than any other type of show I've ever seen. An American soap could have told the same story (well -- probably not the same story, I can't see one of our younger characters suddenly dying from something as "mundane" as alcohol poisoning) very well and done everything right, but I guess that's why I can't compare the two. They're different, but both can be very effective in ways that are inherent to their particular formats. I guess my point is I really really really wish the US had at least one show that's cut from the same cloth as EE.

I think that some American soaps, at their strongest, did capture some of this feel. I think that the 70s to the early 90s. I remember Maureen's death on GL and how shocking and real that seemed. Unfortunately those types of moments are no longer allowed on soaps, they have spent the last 15+ years in a desperate chase of ratings and have alienated any attempts to attract viewers based on simple yet powerful moments.

Even the British soaps have gotten away from this, as they have tried to ape the worst of American soaps, or ape their own images. It's one of the reasons I've really enjoyed Eastenders again in these last few months as it seems to have stopped trying so much to be like Dynasty or whatever and is much - I'm not going to say gritty because that's such a cliche with EE - but true and natural. It is trusting the audience to know that not everything is OTT and manipulative.

I think that some American soaps, at their strongest, did capture some of this feel. I think that the 70s to the early 90s. I remember Maureen's death on GL and how shocking and real that seemed. Unfortunately those types of moments are no longer allowed on soaps, they have spent the last 15+ years in a desperate chase of ratings and have alienated any attempts to attract viewers based on simple yet powerful moments.

I get what you mean, in regards to the feeling and emotion of it all. That's possible to do here, but I meant more of the aesthetics of it. We got to see Carol walk to and from work, we got to see the whole square standing outside, all "knowing" but no one wanting to say anything at that moment, the coroner taking Billie's body, being able to see the various characters nervously shuffle around from the kitchen to the foyer to upstairs to outside, the messy/disorganized beds, etc. It really did make you feel like we were eavesdropping on something you had no business being a part of, and I'd love to have an American soap that was a bit more down to earth in regards to characters, settings, storylines, etc.

I'm glad I haven't really seen a whole lot of this decade of EE. I'm enjoying the early episodes for the look and feel of the show then and I see some of that in the current episodes too, so I'm kinda apprehensive about seeing the show try to be too over-the-top.

I'd love to see Pat get a story again. A very strong story. She certainly has the past for one.

Until then, like you said, it's great to see her in such a strong matriarchal role. I am especially glad that they figured out how to write for her while still encompassing Bianca and Carol. This means she doesn't have a big role, but she is there as a solid support, and yet we also see some hints of her own grief. It's better than episode after episode of Bianca shouting for "Nana Pat" to do this and do that, then telling us a day later that she's off on holiday yet again.

From the spoilers, there appears to be a fun episode next week with Pat, Janine, Stacey, and Kat. Apparently, after a fight erupts at R&R, the four of them find themselves in prison and under one cell. It should be fun to see the four of them together in a confined space.

Pictures from next week's episodes: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/eastenders/2010/10/picture-gallery-wc-18-october.shtml#more

A vague spoiler for Friday October 29th says, "Elsewhere, Pat offers gentle words of wisdom to a fragile Carol."

I wonder what that one is about. It should be interesting, because from their history, Pat and Carol do not like each other and owe each other absolutely nothing. So, Pat being a voice of reason for Carol in her time of needs sounds interesting.

Do you feel there's been a conscious effort lately to infuse more heart into the show? If things keep up, this might be the first time since the John Yorke era that you can feel the emotional core and heart of a lot of the content playing out.

Edited October 13, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I get what you mean, in regards to the feeling and emotion of it all. That's possible to do here, but I meant more of the aesthetics of it. We got to see Carol walk to and from work, we got to see the whole square standing outside, all "knowing" but no one wanting to say anything at that moment, the coroner taking Billie's body, being able to see the various characters nervously shuffle around from the kitchen to the foyer to upstairs to outside, the messy/disorganized beds, etc. It really did make you feel like we were eavesdropping on something you had no business being a part of, and I'd love to have an American soap that was a bit more down to earth in regards to characters, settings, storylines, etc.

I'm glad I haven't really seen a whole lot of this decade of EE. I'm enjoying the early episodes for the look and feel of the show then and I see some of that in the current episodes too, so I'm kinda apprehensive about seeing the show try to be too over-the-top.

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, that is something which a foreign soap, especially one with outdoor sets, seems to have a stronger feel with. I think if GL had ever managed to be competent with their cheap filming and that show had somehow stayed on the air, then they could have eventually made it work (a few of their scenes in the final year were helped by outdoor footage), but generally a lot of outside footage doesn't work. Bryan Kirkwood said that he was going to make more use of the outside sets, and expand them, and I think we've been seeing that with moments like the Stacey/Janine fight, and with Carol's walk back home. It does add a more believable feel to everything.

I guess it depends on what the producer or story editor see Eastenders as being. I think Santer and DTC saw the show as a campy shocking thing where we were supposed to gasp. They did have some serious stories but sometimes that seemed like just a way to get by with more of the overly soapy stuff, so they could point to a few half-finished stories and go "See?"

Edited October 13, 201015 yr by CarlD2

Do you feel there's been a conscious effort lately to infuse more heart into the show? If things keep up, this might be the first time since the John Yorke era that you can feel the emotional core and heart of a lot of the content playing out.

I do feel that way, yes. It's been a long time since I really felt that strong emotional bond within the show. It's been there with Stacey/Jean and sometimes with Bianca and her kids but often family relationships were wasted or were inconsistent. Like the Brannings. Years wasted with this set never really bothering to share scenes together. It still annoys me, as I think Bradley would have worked so well if he'd spent more time with Jack or with Bianca.

I think what I like most is that the serious moments don't feel as much like a self-conscious attempt at seriousness which is then forgotten on the way back to the camp.

The show certainly isn't perfect but I feel like a big effort is being made to make Eastenders emotionally valid again and not to assume viewers just want to see the stunt of the week. I'd like to see this translate to some other stories too (like with Kat, and I can see why people are confused about Ronnie), but this type of human touch has really done a lot for the overall nature of the show and it makes everything seem more valuable, because it's no longer so rigidly divided between filler and stalling and the big moments. It all flows together.

Did you see the spoilers about

Carol hitting Liam and making him bleed?

I did.

I hope that won't be going too far...I at least hope they might show Carol in some type of therapy or counseling at some point. I know that they might want to move on to other stories (as they sped up some of Phil's recovery from crack) but I think a lot of viewers might have a hard time getting past Carol being so out of control if it's not addressed)

Did you see the spoilers about

Carol hitting Liam and making him bleed?

Aw, since I've been watching I've loved that kid. Poor thing.

This is great news (as long as they don't go around hitting people with Queen Vic busts).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/10004491

The Children in Need promo.

The new spoilers are out.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=44823578&postcount=1

I wonder if Roxy finds that Ronnie isn't pregnant, or if she learns she has lost all her money.

That promo was hilarious.

Lacey and Kirkwood said that Stacey will go back to her roots and reclaim some of her old spirit again. Lacey is happy to be more "bubbly" again since Kat's returned:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s2/eastenders/news/a282104/turner-praises-enders-stacey-change.html

Lindsey Coulson thinks Carol should be close friends with Shirley and Denise:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s2/eastenders/news/a282114/enders-star-wants-friends-for-carol.html

Edited October 14, 201015 yr by Y&RWorldTurner