Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[dc11786]

Thanks, saynotoursoap.

Carl, this is pure speculation, but I believe the show intended to pair Curtis and Ava again in 1992 when Addie Walsh was headwriter. Initially, when Ava started working at Burnell's, her mysterious boss was a Mr. A who had known Ava for some time. I think Walsh's plan was to pair Curtis and Ava, but Walsh left and Haidee Granger served as interim headwriter. Instead of Curtis, we got Leo Burnell, which made little sense since Burnell's was owned by the Aldens when Ava first appeared in 1984.

[EricMontreal22]

I started watching under Addie W's run, but she never seemed to be given a chance. Though the show went through so many changes (as it always did) who knows. I did like a lot of Taggert/Guza's run, and I largely loved Nixon's (kinda strange and gothic) return, when the original Curtis returned as Dante's "pet"

[DRW50]

Too derivative. I think I would have loved this promo otherwise. The best part is the whisper at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ueQdrSutg

[EricMontreal22]

Yeah it was a really bad idea to basically open City (after a few months anyway--I think it was 6) with a NEW serial killer story that was set up and advertised so similarly to the Loving murders. I am positive someone thought ratings weren't climbing fast enough and mandated it--but it was way way too soon. And regardless--as has been pointed out, most of the potential victims were characters people barely even had grown to know yet, so the huge threat of the Loving Murders didn't exist.

[Vee]

That didn't stop my ex from loving both stories.

Who exactly was Melissa Dye's character supposed to be again? Why'd she do it?

I know serial killer stories are played out now but I've never seen one done as classily and well-handled promotion-wise since then. I could go for a well-told one with that same effort.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Vee

[EricMontreal22]

I agree, I just think it was redundent. Wasn't she an actress? And.... I forget (of course she was hinted to have come back and killed Sidney in the finale). I loed the City pretty much a few months AFTER that story on, so I guess it gave it some momentum story wise, but...

[Cheap21]

[SFK]

A lil' somethin' my VCR found. Absolutely no comment on Frankie in the closing credits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C1JiDI6Q98

[EricMontreal22]

Ha Frankie doing some dance modelling shot to Rupaul!

Thanks for posting that. Did Frankie make the move to The City or was he already in film school or whatever--I can't remember.

I do think by the time Jacob was on they already knew they would be rebooting and he'd be going with Angie to the new show--she was underused on Loving but I did like how her and Jacob kinda were the anchoring couple on The City. A lot of characters added in 1995 were obviously set up to be City characters.

Forgot that Jane Elliot was a producer on Loving...

[SFK]

Alimi's Frankie was on The City too. I noticed that music cue in the scene with Jacob and Tanya sounded very The City-like.

The Jane Elliot connection was very interesting as she'd later return in actor form as Tracy. I wonder if it was hard for her not to "call the shots" when she saw [!@#$%^&*] being done incorrectly.

Edited February 9, 2013 by SFK

[EricMontreal22]

Yeah I wonder if they were already trying some City type things (though of course it was still traditionally filmed). I do remember Frankie--kinda, I guess he was one of that first wave of characters who moved out (like Bernard and Azure C the transexual or whatever...)

As much as I love Morgan Fairchild, I think The City really came to life when Tracy moved in (not just cuz of her, everything just started to mesh)--but I found the switch strange too--of course a number of soap actors have moved back and forth between being producers or especially writers, but usually once they move behind the scenes, they only return for cameos (Francesca James, Gillian Spencer, Ellen Wheeler, Pam Long, Megan McTavish... I'm sure some would hope some of these people would have returned to acting instead of producing or writing...)

Edited February 9, 2013 by EricMontreal22

[DRW50]

I think Gillian Spencer moved back from writing to acting during her AMC stint.

I remember an interview with Jane right after she came on The City where they talked about her checking the lighting, just automatically.

Thanks for the clip, SFK. I had wondered if you were doing OK. I've seen nothing of this particular time right before the murders. The show seems like it's in good shape to me. I'm reminded of why I liked Angie/Charles and how Debbi managed to create a believable relationship with Geoffrey Ewing. I hadn't seen that story about Jacob's fake, bad acting sister, but I did laugh at the "incest" line.

I guess this is when Deborah had her heart attack. NAA is so moving in that scene. She was such an underrated, understated actress.

The ending speaks for itself. I wonder if that was a new scene or something from earlier in the episode.

[Vee]

I really liked whoever it was who played Richard Wilkins, but that may be influenced by my having a thing for a young Australian friend of mine. He was cute and fun.

What fascinates me about Loving now, at least in the early-mid '90s is how it feels like pretty much stock Agnes Nixon to me, a primer in just how she views soaps and how her machine runs - she seemed to keep visiting and revisiting a lot of the same simple, basic youth triangles and canvases, trying to make them work. While there's some nutty stuff, a lot of it seems like simple, somewhat elegant storytelling in a lot of ways, but effective no matter when you revisit it. You have Jessica Collins (who was very good) and Robert Tyler alone in a bar unable to be with each other, and that's all you need. Same with, say, Amelia Heinle as Steffi and Michael Weatherly's buttoned up but tortured Cooper. And then of course there was that whole college revamp where the Rebecca Gayheart character was basically the same model as a Tara Martin/Becca Tyree/etc. Until down the road, characters like Steffi or Dinah Lee seem to supplant her in the same role of a vulnerable young woman who still clearly has integrity. The problem is that Loving I think eventually just became a petri dish for numerous people's ideas, including Agnes's - there was no real core beyond a few people. It was completely fluid.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Vee

[DRW50]

I agree with you - I think at its core there is a simple purity to Loving that probably wasn't seen as good enough at the time, but holds up now. The acting also tends to be of a high standard, most of the time, by the last 3-4 years.

As for Molly on The City, I think she was an out of work actress who had a lot of issues with her mother. I can't remember exactly why she had a history of mental illness. She kept it hidden from everyone, including viewers, until the reveal where she told Danny she was on the phone with her mother, only for viewers to realize she had called the weather, or something like that.

ChuckR7 used to have some clips of this story but his channel is gone now.

[DRW50]

More from our hero.

The funny part is I think this is probably the most Jack even had to do in 1996.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8wKVvm9wp0