Santa Barbara Discussion Thread

[DemetriKane]

Quick question,

How are you guys making time to watch all these soaps? I consider myself a pretty organized person, but since I have committed to watching more of the older soaps. I feel all over the place, and can not figure out a schedule that seems to work.  How are you all doing it?

 

Thanks. I will check that out.

[chrisml]

I recently watched the premiere of Santa Barbara. I had never seen it. Most of my knowledge of the show is from 1988 onwards. I know of the show before that, but it's from recaps or individual clips/stories (having seen some of the carnation killer stuff). I can see why SB was not well thought of during its first year. The first episode is not that good. The acting is all over the place with only Robin Wright and Lane Davies making much of an impression. Everyone else is either given little to do or just too overeager/overwrought. Ava Lazar is beautiful but awful. I don't know how long she stays, but my word she is bad. Peter Mark Richman tries, but he's very one note as C.C. There's very little of the Dobson wit except for the few seconds with Anderson's Mrs. Lockridge. Interesting how Kelly is set up as the show's main heroine at this point and Eden is given just a brief mention. 

I will say that Valorie Armstrong is a compelling presence, but I know she doesn't last long based on what I know of the show. A shame as they do set up the show to have different economic backgrounds and they also have the Andrades. That was completely gone by the time I started watching. I don't think the Andrades last long either because I don't remember seeing Rosa or Santana when I started following SB in late 88. Santana comes back briefly at some point (I think to kidnap Brandon) but then disappears and then she reappears when the Dobsons return for round 2 but that's with Wanda De Jesus. Did Rosa return then? I don't remember. This premiere episode would not make me keep watching if I didn't know what was to come.

@DemetriKaneI just watch when I feel like watching the soaps. I'm an emotional watcher so sometimes I will watch a batch of episodes and other times I watch one or two a day. As I'm watching Edge of Night and Dark Shadows, I can get two or three a day if I'm disciplined.

[Ryan Mason]

Yes, a few months before Wanda De Jesus, actually. Shortly after the Dobsons took over again, Rosa just magically reappeared as if she'd just been offscreen in the Capwell kitchen for the past four years.

I just started watching this from the beginning again last year and I will agree with past posts that there really does seem to have been a reboot of sorts in January 1985. To me, it seemed like the four performers who really seemed to set the tone for the new wittier, more sophisticated direction were Nicolas Coster, Louise Sorel, Lane Davies and Judith McConnell.

[Jdee43]

When the show debuted, Louise Sorel came on like gangbusters. But then in the fifth week, they introduced Lionel, and her star power dimmed. Unfortunately her character became more of a jealous, shrewish wife.

Lionel came on like gangbusters after the earthquake, especially in December 1984, but unfortunately after that, they had his character in jail for 2 months, which dimmed his star power.

I'm watching late February 1985, and Mason is still dull as dirt. His character hasn't come alive yet.

The show is really doing a good job with the Kelly/ Peter stuff, mostly due to the performances. It's too bad they couldn't make Peter this interesting from the beginning. 

Edited May 17 by Jdee43

[chrisml]

A shame that Santa Barbara lost the Andrades but I wonder what the Dobsons had in mind for them. From what I know of the Joe/Kelly situation, they didn't seem to know what to do with the Perkins. I don't think McConnell in particular gets enough acclaim for what she added to the show. 

The Dobsons (from what I know of the show) didn't seem to know what to do with Augusta. This was especially true on their second go around but that was also Rauch getting back at her, so who knows?

[Soaplovers]

The Perkins family had potential to be a nice alternative to the more dysfunctional Capwells and wackier Lockridges... but I think a few factors did in the family.

1) Recasting of Joe Perkins

2) Bad casting of the Perkins Patriarch, and the one note writing for that character.

3) Lack of antagonistic interaction between the Capwells/Lockridges and Perkins.  (There was no awkwardness between Jade/Ted.. or CC disapproving of his son being friends with that Perkins girl, etc).

4) Wasting of Jade thus wasting the potential of the actress (which was realized on Days of Our Lives).  She had more potential than Laken oddly enough.

The only member of the Perkins family that had appeal and a somewhat thought out story arc was Amy.

 

[j swift]

I just had thought of how to save the Perkins family.

(Inspired by Rituals) -- What if Marisa Perkins was Augusta Lockridge's sister?

Fictionally, they could've both been local girls, one married rich and one married poor.

Originally, I was going to suggest that Marisa be Sophia's sister, but then I realized Joe and Kelly would've been first cousins.  Of course, it would've truly inspired Sophia was if Rosa Andrade sister, with Rosa and Santana moving in to help CC raise the kids once Sophia disappeared.  While this could've avoided both gross CC and Santana affairs, the times were not right for a story about intersectional inequity.

Edited May 17 by j swift

[dc11786]

The original premise of "Santa Barbara" was that a Lockridge (Warren) killed a Capwell (Channing), who loved an Andrade (Santana), while a Perkins (Joe) went to jail for the crime. I think once the show started to pull away the threads by eliminating Joe and naming a new killer a lot of the show's original potential was lost. I contend, like others, that the fault lied in the uninspiring casting, which leads me to wonder if that's why the show became so keen on casting soap veterans for nearly every pivotal role. 

The failure of the Perkins family was definitely a casting issue followed by a lack of interest in committing to the original onscreen characterization. I was fascinated watching the early episodes and realizing that the Perkins had been financially wiped out by the trial, which was an underlying current towards John's animosity towards his son. Then, the additional complication of Marissa's nearly incestual affection for Joe that led to her cutting off John sexually was a wild moment to witness, but not as strong as it could have been with a stronger actor in the role of John Perkins. Melissa Brennan wasn't the right choice for the aspiring young vixen that Jade was intended to be. Brennan may have breathed life into Laken, but I'm not sure how Julia Ronnie would have done in the role of Jade. 

Despite the recorded history, Christina Robertson and Sarah Gallagher weren't sisters; they were aunt and niece.  I don't think it would have hurt to make Marissa and Augusta sisters, but I think it would have made the Joe / Augusta seduction impossible unless you truly mimick "Rituals" and make Joe Sarah's stepson. I think a childhood friendship between the two women would have worked. It would have also given Augusta someone to confide in about the situation involving Peter Flint and herself as Marissa would have been aware of Peter from her work at the pre school. As childhood friends that were estranged by class differences, I think a relationship between Augusta and Joe (and later Augusta and a sexually frustrated John) would have had multiple layers to play out giving a deeper impact on Augusta's involvement in both of the men in Marissa's life. And because I have thought about this all too much, I would have Augusta and Marissa square off again when Jade, after marrying Ted while pregnant, learned that the little Capwell heir was in fact an imprisoned Warren's son only for Augusta to ultimately keep mum because with Ted married to Jade he wasn't free to pursue Laken. 

I imagine the Andrades would have slowly been withdrawn from the Capwell inner circle as the truth about Santana, Channing, Jr., and the baby came to light for everyone. In what I seen in the 1980s, Rosa confronts C.C. once about the baby and then seems to move on. Early in the run, the actor playing Reuben claims he and Bridget Dobson had a falling out and implied that she was racist which led to the character fading into the woodwork. 

I know I am like maybe one of two people who liked the 1990s run of the Dobsons, but I loved the set up for Santana / C.C. with the Andrades having owned the land that Oasis sat on years earlier posing Santana to come into money while also potentially landing a position where she could raise Gina's son with C.C. if C.C. and Santana could have secured custody of the child. With Eden gone, I would have gone back to Santana and Cruz, but if not, I think Brick should have returned to be Santana's conscience and potential love interest. 

 

 

[Efulton]

On the French Santa Barbara site Ismael Carlo did not hold back about how he felt about the Dobsons.

http://santabarbara-online.com/index2.htm

How did you start in Santa Barbara ?

My recollection is that I auditioned for the role. After a couple of weeks of contract negotiations I was told that all was in order and that I would start work in a couple of weeks or so. But that's when the sh*t hit the fan. In her high petulant way she (Bridget Dobson) commenced to tell me how all her South American workers were beholding to her. How she treated them, "like children". I said to her, "I'm not a child". She got upset and started to cry. I told her that if she did not want me on the show, all she had to do was break the contract and pay me. It never happened. The Dobsons, who were the producers, where a pair of what you would call in your country aristocrats in their minds. I almost quit just before I started. But like any actor at the time I stuck it out all because of the work. I don't think I will ever sell my soul again. I was also able to perform with the lead actor and director in a production of his: Romeo & Juliet. I played Papa Capulet.

[dc11786]

@Efulton That's the quote I was refering to. In the bible, at almost the beginning, Rueben and C.C. were compared as being similar as two fathers wanting everything for their children, or something along those lines. I do think the Andrades were intended to have more of a role, but they never even garnered a family set (just Santana's apartment). In 1991, they added the Capwell kitchen which seemed to be a domestic space for Rosa, but clearly not solely Rosa's. I feel like I remember Rosa confronting Santana about her feelings for C.C. being an attempt to recreate her grand fantasy with Channing, Jr. in the kitchen, but more likely that was the bedroom Santana was redecorating (C.C.'s master suite) utilizing the designsshe had envisioned for herself and Channing, Jr.  

[Efulton]

I liked the original 4 family set up.  The families were all different from each other and were intertwined.  They should have been given equal airtime.

I felt that Lockridges were perfectly cast with the exception of Laken.  She should have been quickly recast.  

I liked all 4 of the actors cast as the Andrades and wish they would have been given better writing.  I really thought Ava Lazar (Santana) would have been one of the breakout stars if she had not been replaced.

My only issue with the casting of the Perkins family was Robert Alan Browne as John and as much as I liked Mark Arnold he was the wrong actor to recast Joe Perkins.

And of course it was ridiculous how badly they screwed up the casting of CC. The other Capwells were well cast.

Edited May 18 by Efulton

[j swift]

I always wondered if the Andrades lived at the Capwell Mansion?  Certainly they could've had a living room in their space or wherever they went on days off. But, I felt like it was never clear whether Santana visited Rosa when Kelly and Eden were young, or if she actually lived in the servant's quarters (one hopes modern developers have found a euphemism for that space). 

I always imagined that Rosa, Santana, and Reuben lived with CC up until Channing was murdered, and then they found their own place because the kids were mostly over 18 (and Santana was pregnant).

I like the idea of Rueban and CC being close until Santana got pregnant.  And then Reuben would've hated the adoption of Brandon.  Which would have meant he hated CC, and would've only continued to work for him to try to get info on whatever happened to his grandson.

With regard Ava Lazar, having recently rewatched the pilot for the millionth time, I find her captivating to watch, but her line delivery is so dull. She looks amazing, and I just want her to be more quick witted.

Edited May 18 by j swift

[Efulton]

According to the French Santa Barbara site the Andrades had a house in the early episodes.  I thought I remembered scenes in their home.

The Andrade house

Edited May 18 by Efulton

[j swift]

Agreed that they had a home in the present tense of the first set of episodes.  But I was wondering if they lived in the mansion in the past when Sophia disappeared, and moved out when Santana got pregnant?  Or even when Danny was born.

[dc11786]

Thanks for finding that about the Andrade home. I think it wasn't show in the opening weeks, but I may be wrong. With Danny in Los Angeles and Santana on her own, I don't think much space was given to Rosa and Reuben. It might have been nice to see them engaged in a healthy relationship threatened by Rosa keeping Santana's recently uncovered pregnancy from Reuben or even a visit from one of their other chidlren. 

During the 1991 dinner, I think Rosa stated she would go home after work, which I took to me that she left the Capwell estate.