Santa Barbara Discussion Thread

[Manny]

Santa Barbara was huge in my country Croatia as well. But mostly in the first few years of its run time. It was airing during the 90s, during our war for independence from Yugoslavia/Serbia, and Santa Barbara was so popular that they even had detailed recaps of the show on radio, because a lot of people only listened to the radio while hiding in the bomb shelters and didn't have TVs. 

However, the hype for the show died down in the later years, so by the time it finished, not many people watched it and many people ridiculed it for some of the more unrealistic storylines. 

[Forever8]

Two of the men responsible for the success of the beloved soap opera, Santa Barbara, A Martinez (ex-Cruz) and Jerome Dobson (Co-creator and co-head writer) join the Michael Fairman Channel for a live conversation on Friday night June 21st beginning at 9 pm ET/6 pm PT.

[Maxim]

I've hear similar stories about when the show was airing in Russia. One of my friends used to tell me years and years ago that when russians want to say that some family is bad or rotten, the always say - They are Santa Barbara. It has become a part of the urban dictionary. Iconic. 

[MarcyWalkerFan]

Wow....

[Jdee43]

I just finished Summer's murder in my rewatch. They should have just had all Peter's murder victims be random day players that ran into Kelly. Summer's murder felt petty, like they were killing her off only because she was a bad actress. It also felt misogynistic; having left town to deal with rape trauma, Summer returns just long enough to be raped again and this time killed. And given the character's connection to Warren and Gina, it was also a waste. She should have been kept alive off screen, and returned down the line recast with a stronger actress. Perhaps in 1991, Nina Arvesen's character could have been Summer?

The murder of Summer started a long pattern of this show needlessly killing off female characters in the most ridiculous ways: Mary, Amy, Hayley, Elena, Andrea, Sasha, Nikki. This was one of the reasons why the cast stayed so small, and perhaps why the audience did too. 

Edited June 19 by Jdee43

[Ryan Mason]

Even if they didn't have A and Marcy, they could have very easily had someone get a phone call or a letter and just basically say "Hey-Cruz and Eden found each other and are back together". It could literally have been done in mere seconds with just a line or two! Ah well.

[MarcyWalkerFan]

Absolutely....would have been a beautiful closure for all the C & E fans...Funny some of these professional writers and creators can be so out of touch with the fan emotions on the ground..

Edited June 19 by MarcyWalkerFan

[Wendy]

I think the intense over reliance on Cruz and Eden hurt this show in the long run.

Before the C/E fans come after me with pitchforks, I'm not saying I hate them or they should not have gotten focus. But they became the one pairing that everyone and everything sort of rotated around. And when Marcy Walker left, there was nothing left to cushion that blow and fill that huge hole.

(Mason and Julia did help. Even Michael Logan did acknowledge that pairing did provide some salve, but even they weren't enough in the end. (Says I, a big M/J fan!))

Another misstep was jettisoning Carrington Garland - who had chemistry with everybody as Kelly - for a name in Eileen Davidson. I don't hate Davidson, but she was miscast in that role. I think, had the Dobsons not been so knee jerk in wanting to put their stamp on everything post return and kept Garland, that she and Roscoe Born could have helped to better cushion the show post C/E. Preferably as Robert and not Quinn, but it's clear that pairing did seem to interest the audience. But even if Born still exited the show, as I said, Garland could generate chemistry with anyone. Actually, I would have been interested two see the two CGs together: Carrington Garland and Charles Grant's Connor. He still could have come on to investigate BJ's molester's murder somehow - minus the Cruz/Kelly aborted ickfest [as in, it never happened!] and go from there.

But by the time TPTB realized they had to plan beyond C/E, it was clear they were already too late and never knew how. There should have always been a plan B in case either or both [which ended up occurring!] A Martinez and Marcy Walker would leave.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. (Okay, commence the throwing of tomatoes!)

 

Edited June 19 by Wendy

[NothinButAttitude]

I don't think you said anything bad. I think your takes are all accurate. 

While I didn't watch the show in real-time, having consumed a good bit via YT, it is apparent that the show could've been more if they focused on other families outside the Capwells or just Eden. 

SB would've probably been more suitable as a 30-minute show (like B&B) instead of an hour. All the stories outside the Capwells seem to flop or not hold interest with the audience.

If the show maintained the premise it had the first 1-2 years with the multiple families, it would've made sense to remain an hour. After the Perkins, Andrade, and Lockridges got cast aside, it made no more sense for the show to be an hour. 

 

[Contessa Donatella]

Is there any question in anyone's mind that if not for the lockout & the lawsuits & that interruption & the way that the Dobsons chose to come back to the show were not the real reason that the show did not ultimately succeed? 

[Liberty City]

I know, in watching for the first time in the past couple of years, the over-saturation of Cruz & Eden is what's kept me from returning to watch, among other creative decisions being made.

On paper, much like the hiring of Terry Lester as Mason, Eileen Davidson should have worked as Kelly Capwell. However, unlike Lester, she was miscast. But she did the best she could. Casting out Carrington Garland was a huge misstep for the return of the Dobson, and again proves my point: their choice of castings was always their biggest flaw for me, stemming back to the recasting of Santana Andrade. But they clearly wanted to "age" Kelly a bit, due to the absence of Marcy Walker's Eden, and the end result was... disappointing. Plus, their decision to pair Cruz with Kelly lended itself into the recast. Shame.

[dc11786]

I'm by no means an expert, but I have noticed in the sporadic viewing of (random) episodes from the early years how powerful the characterization is for both Cruz and Eden and the resulting conflict between their two very different personalities. I find something is lost later on when Eden mellows as they seem to end up in the heat of a lot of action and adventure material, which is a shame because it doesn't really highlight their strengths as performers though A Martinez does a bang up job selling the day to day insanity they throw at Cruz. 

Part of the issue in Eden's early characterization is the Daddy's Girl issues that also seem to mellow. Her hatred for Sophia isn't solely based on her own abandonment issues, but rather the pain that it has caused her father. I think Eden's involvement with older man Jack Lee, which I don't think went anywhere due to Joel Crothers death, would have emphasized that. I often wonder what would have happened if they had maintained Eden's involvement with a rich older father figure type who would have been that source of conflict especially since Jack was involved in law and could have easily had professional conflict with Cruz. 

I also wish that a more vibrant characterization for Santana had been maintained throughout performers. I actually find Wanda DeJesus compelling in 1991 and wish that they had tried to revisit Santana and Cruz at that juncture. 

Carrington Garland definitely shouldn't have been dumped. I'm one of the few that enjoys what I've seen of 1991, and I still think that was a huge mistake. I do see where the Dobsons could have struggled with some of Garland's performances (I find her Kelly, on some occasions, more flighty than I imagine they saw her). I think the Dobsons wanted a more neurotic Kelly, which I think they thought Davidson could give them. I think they should have let Garland play that out because I think she would have been fine.  

I am curious if the international sales had anything to do with the nature of the show. If the hour long show was sold overseas and aired in 2 half-hour segments, I could see why you would want to keep the show's cast a little tighter and the pacing a little bit quicker. I notice in the "New Day in Eden" scripts I have characters/plots can go missing for long stretches when they are broken up. 

With that said, the original multiple family structure should have been maintained. The biggest issue was casting in those early episodes with some of those family units. The Perkins are wildly miscast. The Andrades less so but once Ismael Carlo pissed off the Dobsons, Ruben was crucified and set in motion the unravelling of that family. I would love to see an alternate reality of SB where Santana was the central figure instead of Cruz and Eden. 

[j swift]

If you are ever inclined, I would be enthralled to read a synopsis of New Day in Eden from your perspective.  My only memories of the series were Jack Wagner and Grant Wilson appearing in their respective briefs. 

Wagner as Warren was such a disappointment.  I always felt like Warren had a ton of potential as Lionel's son.  Early episodes hinted at a desire for wheeling and dealing.  He tells Minx that he's been talking to investors who want to build a bar on the beach.  Then he turns into this do-gooder journalist who has none of the Lockridge DNA.  Quel dommage.

[NothinButAttitude]

New Day in Eden is the soap where they were doing nude scenes, right? If so, I doubt any of that would be on YT but I'd be eager to see and read some stuff on that. Time for me to do a deep dive and see what I come up with. 

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 That aside, was that show a success abroad? I'd imagine it would be as nudity in all other countries is nothing. 

And what did Ismael Carlo do to piss off the Dobsons? Regardless of what he did, I don't think it should've resulted in the marginalizing of the Andrades even more. They could've recast him or phased him out. I always felt that Ted floundered unlike the rest of the Capwells b/c he didn't have a steady set of peers to act off of. All of his leading ladies either left (Laken & Christie) or killed off (Hayley). And I liked the friendship of Ted/Danny. That's one thing I would love to pick the brain of Jerome Dobson or any writer of SB throughout the duration--why was Ted always cast aside? You'd think he would've drove story more than anyone during that time as soaps were pushing young adult stories out like  crack at that time. 

I think Santana should've remained a mainstay throughout the entire run. But from what I've read and seen, she became a casualty to the Capwells. They should've kept her as a foil to Gina over Keith. Or this is where I feel like they should've focused more on expanding the canvas past the Capwells as we could've seen Santana with other men on the canvas. 

[Wendy]

Funny you write/say that, considering the angle the show was hinting at before it got the axe. (Inferring that when Sophia/Lionel were getting it on, so had Augusta/CC. I think you can guess where this was heading, especially considering Mason and Warren's disdain for each other.)

Although Warren did discover Lionel was NOT his birth father before the show ended - and proceeded to treat Lionel like crap. Which was a crime. Not to mention John Allen Nelson's Warren looked AND SOUNDED like Nicolas Coster, so the rewrite REALLY sucked!