Primetime Soaps

[Contessa Donatella]

Definitely St. Elsewhere but also Hill Street Blues, both are not just soapy dramas but are about 3/4s the way to being primetime soaps. IMO

[Khan]

You think DAYS' John Black has problems untangling his past?  He's got nothing on John Doe #6.  That man was so confused about his past, he actually thought he was Mary Richards at one point, lol!

But seriously, @Soaplovers, you are right about "St. Elsewhere" being one step away from being a primetime soap.  If "Hill Street Blues" was like DALLAS, then "Elsewhere" was like KL - and often, just as irreverent, tongue-in-cheek and unpredictable (even if the "Elsewhere" crew seemed to be better at shaking up expectations and still keeping everything mostly character-driven). 

I often wonder what GH would be like if Tom Fontana or John Masius/John Tinker were to be their HW.  I think they would bring the focus back on the actual hospital and allow their stories to flow through that arena.

Edited March 11, 2024 by Khan

[DRW50]

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I do think St. Elsewhere was a soap, even if the people who made it probably wouldn't have agreed. There does get to a point around season 5 where the show just gets so overly cynical, flip, and extremely bitter that it's almost unwatchable, but Fontana and Masius ended up leaving and the final season, with new producers, is more of a return to the show's early years in being more sedate (if a little dull).

The first season of the show is my favorite as the whole show has a more contemplative atmosphere and the hospital is allowed to look much more rundown, but the shift to a more soap-oriented format is probably what stopped it from being canceled.

[Khan]

In the past, I've wondered how two of the show's producers, John Masius and John Tinker (yes, Zach's dad, lol), might have fared head-writing GH, since the show's (nominal) hospital setting lends itself best to the kind of workplace-oriented dramas that the two are arguably most known for.  I've also wondered how a GH head-written by Tom Fontana might look and sound, but it probably would be a lot like Bob Guza's, lol.

Thanks, @DRW50, for the stuff in the spoiler part. 

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[soapfan770]

I do wonder if Hotel would have benefited from something like what Season 7 of Falcon Crest attempted to do with the multiple short arcs and rotating guest stars every few episodes. Shoot maybe have hired someone like Freilich to give the show some energy, although not at the same high octane pace lol.

 

Without a doubt to me, the underrated Sisters was a soap, and later shows like Providence and Once and Again definitely had soapy elements to them at a time when primetime was going full in on reality shows. 
 

I agree with the others about L.A. Law and St. Elsewhere. Funny my parents never watched Hotel they were too busy watching St Elsewhere!

I’d throw Northern Exposure in the mix too along with Picket Fences.

Always enjoyed the more serialized/soapier arcs of The X-Files despite the sci-fi nature of the arcs, and I could say the same thing about those WB shows like Buffy and Charmed, at least in their earlier seasons lol.

 

[Contessa Donatella]

I consider SISTERS a soap, too!

[te.]

I've been watching "Homefront" lately and despite all the critical acclaim hiding the fact, it is a soap. Part of me wonder if they had gone harder in the promo for the soapy angle rather than trying to be a critical darling it would've been more successful.

[j swift]

Much like thirtysomething, Homefront feels like it is from that period right after the over publicized “downfall" of primetime soaps when networks thought that word should be verboten in marketing.  Even early 90210 marketing, tries to avoid the use of the term soap opera at all costs. 

[Contessa Donatella]

And weren't all the actual new primetime soaps failing? The Monroes, what 6 episodes? Pensacola, Central Park West, what was the Aaron Spelling with Michelle Stafford & Finola Hughes? Pacific something? And they were all actually good shows! 

[Khan]

IA.  When you have a character tampering with her diaphragm so she can get pregnant, you're writing a soap, lol.

Oh, I loved watching "Sisters" BITD.  The writing was so cornball and messy, but I thought the chemistry among Patricia Kalember, Swoosie Kurtz, Julianne Phillips and Sela Ward was fantastic.

Edited March 13, 2024 by Khan

[j swift]

Doesn't one of the sisters get replaced, or they found another sister in a later season?  Very Cousin Oliver on Brady Bunch or Val on 90210, jump the shark type of moment.

Also, it is interesting that in our current Hallmark, Lifetime, and GAF culture that we haven't seen more of Julianne Phillips.  She seems to have just disappeared.  I just Googled her, she hasn't had a project in 21 years, and here are the top three questions.

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And Swoosie Kurtz needs a Moira on Schitt's Creek or White Lotus Moment.  Overall, I want a Sisters-a-sance.

Edited March 13, 2024 by j swift

[Khan]

Yes.  Julianne Phillips had elected to leave the show, so (IIRC) the producers revealed that the Reed sisters' father had fathered another daughter, Charlotte, or "Charley," by another woman (I think it was with his nurse/longtime mistress, but I can't be sure).  Unfortunately, I don't think Charley ever meshed well with the other sisters, even after she was recast, so it was up to Kalember, Kurtz and especially Ward to keep the series going.

[kalbir]

IIRC, 90210 first season was promoted as a teen drama and the episodes were mostly self-contained. When the show blew up with the Summer 1991 episodes, that's when I think it became more soapy.

[DRW50]

Absolutely Rose Street is a very...of the era Sega 32X infomercial under the guise of a "hip" teen drama/comedy. The cast is not credited. I was trying to figure out if one of the guys (Max) is Ryan Francis (Georgie's son Trevor on Sisters). Can anyone tell me what they think?

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[soapfan770]

What the heck was up the 1983 miniseries Malibu? I know it was mentioned in passing several pages back. Was it planned to be a continuing primetime series? I only watched the opening theme, and the song was horrendous.

The NYTimes review wasn’t too kind either lol:

Start with Kim Novak, George Hamilton, James Coburn, Eva Marie Saint, Valerie Perrine, Anthony Newley, Troy Donahue and some lesser personalities. Add chunks of love affairs, financial finagling and television careerism. Garnish generously with beauteous bodies on beach and in boudoir. And there you have ''Malibu,'' the four-hour television movie showing in two two-hour parts on Channel 7 at 9 P.M. today and tomorrow.

If the resultant stew smells a bit familiar, like leftovers from ''Dallas'' or ''Dynasty,'' that is not unintentional. Among the characters whose interrelations I shall not attempt to summarize are a real-estate dealer (Kim Novak) whose function is to introduce the summer visitors to the regulars and all of them to viewers; an easily impressed middle-level executive from Milwaukee who is in peril of being corrupted by the Malibu ambiance (William Atherton); a highpowered lawyer with low-level ethics (James Coburn); a charming operator (George Hamilton); a promiscuous yet wholesome tennis pro (Chad Everett); an entirely unbelievable television journalist (Ann Jillian); a recluse who pops up periodically as a kind of jogging gag (Troy Donahue), and wives in various stages of distress (Eva Marie Saint, Susan Dey and Bridget Hanley).

Served this sort of dish, one manages by picking out the more palatable tidbits. Tastes differ, of course. My preference goes to George Hamilton, who adds an extra fillip to his performance as a thoroughly implausible con man by letting us know with a gesture, an expression and an attitude, that he knows the whole show is a con; James Coburn, who can give a cynical edge to the emptiest line, and Valerie Perrine, who brings to her role as the resident gay divorcee as much sex as it calls for and seems to have plenty in reserve. For the rest, there's that ambiance: ''That's what Malibu is all about,'' says Miss Novak, ''ambiance.''

Or, as someone else puts it, ''The whole world wants to live in Southern California, and everybody in Southern California wants to live in Malibu.'' Maybe so, but with advertisements featuring residents like this crowd, real-estate dealers like Miss Novak may be in trouble.