16 hours ago, Broderick said:

I would imagine so.  I suffered through the first episode of "Fresno" when it premiered, and I found it awfully tiresome.  If we wanted to see "situational humor" in a primetime soap format, JR Ewing, Angela Channing, and Abby were offering that weekly in a more consistent manner.  If we wanted to see dependable "high camp humor", the entire cast of Dynasty appeared to be (unintentionally) providing that.  "Fresno", as it was presented, truly didn't have anything to offer that hadn't already been around since 1980.  

The reason why Dynasty worked was because the writing and performers played it as non-camp.. and that was why it was such a memorable over the type campy show.

Fresno was all camp and played too broadly.  The key to good camp is to play it straight, have a relatable story, and have characters you care about.  Fresno offered none of that.

32 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

The reason why Dynasty worked was because the writing and performers played it as non-camp.. and that was why it was such a memorable over the type campy show.

Fresno was all camp and played too broadly.  The key to good camp is to play it straight, have a relatable story, and have characters you care about.  Fresno offered none of that.

You've just described the difference between James Reilly's DOOL & Ron Carlivati's DOOL. 

On 11/23/2023 at 4:40 AM, Donna L. Bridges said:

classics like Sho-Gun, The Thornbirds & Bare Essence. 

When I think of classics Roots, Holocaust and Malibu come to mind.

Edited November 23, 20232 yr by Paul Raven

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

When I think of classics Roots, Holocaust and Malibu come to mind.

Sure, I would definitely add Roots & Holocaust. I know nothing about Malibu. I take it you don't consider Sho-Gun & Thornbirds? 

Here's an interesting list of the top 145 mini-series. Sho-Gun is their #10. Roots is their #7. Might be a strange list. 

https://www.ranker.com/list/miniseries-tv-shows-and-series/ranker-tv

I don't know if you recall or not but I like to catch Bing Chat (AI) in errors. I asked it if Sho-Gun, The Thornbirds & Bare Essence would be considered among the best miniseries. Its reply 

Quote

Yes, all three of them are considered to be among the best miniseries of all time.

And, for references it gave imdb & paste magazine's website & YouTube. YouTube?

Paste has a list it calls The Best 1980s miniseries that changed television & it lists 3: Sho-Gun, The Thornbirds & Lace. 

https://www.pastemagazine.com/tv/list/best-famous-1980s-miniseries-shogun-the-thorn-birds-lace

Edited November 24, 20232 yr by Donna L. Bridges

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

The reason why Dynasty worked was because the writing and performers played it as non-camp.. and that was why it was such a memorable over the type campy show.

Fresno was all camp and played too broadly.  The key to good camp is to play it straight, have a relatable story, and have characters you care about.  Fresno offered none of that.

I'd say that's exactly right.  Carol Burnett & Company played their campy material as "boulevard comedy" in Fresno, which effectively butchered the camp component.

The cast of Dynasty played their campy material as "straight drama", with hilarious results.  

3 hours ago, Broderick said:

I'd say that's exactly right.  

I would, too.  Like @Soaplovers said, the key to good camp is to play it straight (no pun intended).

7 minutes ago, Khan said:

I would, too.  Like @Soaplovers said, the key to good camp is to play it straight (no pun intended).

This is my opinion also. It always has been. There is an elevation when it comes to farce, satire, parody & the bottom line is its being played genuinely, authentically, even earnestly, and that is how you get the desired result, like camp. When you play to it & do not play it seriously, you get some pretty cheap claptrap. 

Like John Waters says, "Camp doesn't know it's camp."

17 hours ago, SFK said:

Like John Waters says, "Camp doesn't know it's camp."

Sontag said, "You can't camp about something you don't take seriously. You're not making fun of it, you're making fun out of it." 

Edited November 24, 20232 yr by Donna L. Bridges
more

On 11/23/2023 at 4:40 AM, Donna L. Bridges said:

classics like Sho-Gun, The Thornbirds & Bare Essence. 

To me that was a campy type comment. Hence my reply.

4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

To me that was a campy type comment. Hence my reply.

Okay, I see. Camp was not my intent in this instance. 

It is also ironic that Dynasty was seen as campy fun even while it aired, because it seemed so excessive in every way.  For example, shoulder pads were in style, "In times of insecurity and instability, shoulder pads are like armor.“ But nobody was wearing leather cocktail dresses with matching furs and hats to the office like Alexis and Dominque. 

However, today, one often sees pop-cultural references to Dynasty as if it was an accurate representation of the entire landscape of 1980s fashion.  And shoulder pads have come to represent excess, when in fact, they were a reaction to the recession.

Edited November 24, 20232 yr by j swift

44 minutes ago, j swift said:

It is also ironic that Dynasty was seen as campy fun even while it aired, because it seemed so excessive in every way. 

It's also difficult to determine exactly when Dynasty veered into such camp.  

In the beginning, the show seemed fairly "normal" and "benign".  But in one of the very first episodes -- I believe it was the pilot! -- we saw Blake, Fallon, and Steven having a gloomy family dinner at this 40-foot-long dining hall table that looked like something from King Arthur's court.   The writers appeared to believe that small, wealthy families eat their weeknight dinners in a Mead Hall.  None of the principals made any comment about why they were eating at such an ELONGATED table when there were only three of them.  It was a weirdly campy scene in an otherwise down-to-earth episode.  

Alexis, of course, entered as a somewhat outrageous character who brought an undeniable element of camp into the proceedings, but it seemed a deliberate choice to place a high-camp villainess among the more "grounded" characters. 

As the years went by, though, everyone in the cast seemed to strive to attain Alexis's level of "dramatic outrageousness", and the whole thing became an often hilarious spoof of 1980s Americana excess.   It almost seemed to happen by accident, with the writers, producers, directors, and actors blissfully unaware of the absurdity of the overly-dramatic and cliché-riddled scenes.   

13 minutes ago, Broderick said:

It's also difficult to determine exactly when Dynasty veered into such camp.  

My immediate impulse is to say Alexis and Krystal's first catfight in s2ep29 "The Baby".  Because it set the tone that everything was going to be treated like a cartoon, even the loss of Krystal's baby.  And the obvious use of male stuntmen was parodied all over TV.  It is as if after the success of that scene, they felt the need to keep wrenching up.  Then there was the catfight in pool, then the mud, and it became an annual tradition.

 

Edited November 24, 20232 yr by j swift

12 minutes ago, j swift said:

My immediate impulse is to say Alexis and Krystal's first catfight in s2ep29 "The Baby".  Because it set the tone that everything was going to be treated like a cartoon, even the loss of Krystal's baby.  And the obvious use of male stuntmen was parodied all over TV.  It is as if after the success of that scene, they felt the need to keep wrenching up.  Then there was the catfight in pool, then the mud, and it became an annual tradition.

 

That scene was definitely a memorable foray into absurdity!  

By about the third (?) season, the directors were even BLOCKING the scenes to maximize the humor.  

Two characters would toss out their predictably ridiculous lines -- "I will ruin you!" --- "I will see you in HELL first!!" -- "Is that a threat?!"  -- "That's a PROMISE!!" --  and then the actor who was obviously about to be slapped would preen dastardly, with his/her cheek upturned for the impending blow, while the other character reeled back theatrically to sock him across the face.