What is the kiss of death, exactly?

MARRIAGE.

They're living together in happy, domesticated bliss.

How many times can we hear them have the following exchange?

SAMI: I love you.

LUCAS: I love you more.

SAMI: No, I love YOU more!

LUCAS: No, I love YOU more! Wanna have sex?

SAMI: Okay! Where?

LUCAS: I love YOU more!

Gimme a freakin' break! LoL It's so sugary sweet, I want to vomit! Sami and Lucas are former partners in crime -- the scheme team! They were the ANTI-COUPLE. The fact that they're now more saccharine and sugary than Shawn and Belle tells me that there's something seriously wrong with their relationship dynamics.

Very few people can pull off "happily married" and still keep the passion alive in a soap opera relationship. Bo and Hope have done it, but that's a one-in-a-lifetime sort of chemistry.

In my personal opinion, Alison Sweeney and Bryan Dattillo are too much like brother/sister in their real life relationship for Sami and Lucas to come across as anything more than best friends. Everytime they kiss, it's like watching a brother and sister make out... so wrong, awkward and icky.

Sami and Lucas as a married couple have no possibilities, creatively, except for the same old push-and-pull rehash of the past, and that's grown stale. At least with EJ, are are possibilities and all sorts of avenues that they could take with the story -- all of which are fresh and new for both characters.. Plus, they're both bad guys, so their personalities won't have to be completely changed just to fit the coupling. As for those who say that EJ raped her and Sami could never forgive him... don't forget, Sami is a rapist, herself! If she knows that she, herself, could change and feel remorse for what she did, I'm sure that she could give the same benefit of the doubt to EJ.

Then finally, there's the whole factor of chemistry, which James Scott and Alison Sweeney seem to have in spades. I think they should go for it!

Edited May 27, 200718 yr by Kennylicious

Okay, guyss. Let's please try and keep this debate a respectable, opinion-presenting thread. I'd hate for it to turn into a nasty, bitter, hateful debate in a potentially-closed thread.

ClayZebra, you're making my eyes tear up with your posts. Love me some LUMI. And I can tell you know your stuff!!

I kind of think "EJ brings ratings" is no more or less ludicrous than "Lumi brings ratings", to be honest.

ETA: To clarify, I mean when the writing sucks this much, pinning the ratings ups and downs on this character or that character is so worthless IMO, so clearly just a fanbase tactic. 2.0 is no shape to be enjoying the luxury of "money" characters.

Edited May 29, 200718 yr by billyjill

IMO the kiss of death would be putting Sami with her rapist. They're so NOT Luke and Laura. Luke was redeemable, EJ is NOT thanks to Hogan's hack writing.

Why is marriage the kiss of death? I'm sorry but that irritates me when people say that. Married couples don't have to be boring. Personally I'm sick of all the bed hopping, backstabbing and cheating that happens on soaps all the time, especially Days.

I don't argue that EJ and Sami coming together now would automatically bring Days ratings back to what they were during the summer/fall of EJami before TPTB screwed up their entire show for months with the Dec. 29 episode all for the sake of propping the Lucas and Sami pairing, but I think it's quite clear that not enough Days fans care about Lucas and Sami for them to carry the show based on the past five months and especially their wedding week.

First, there's no evidence that the rape itself was to blame for the ratings decline. The week of Dec 29th (which also included LUMI's reunion love-making) drew a 2.6 and 4th place in HH. The 3 weeks following the rape drew a 2.7 (3rd), 2.7 (4th) & 2.7 (4th). Not surprisingly, these 3 weeks co-incided with Elvis being MIA in Mexico. The ratings plunge began after he returned and began tormenting Sami on a daily basis.

Second, the past five months prove nothing about the level of interest in LUMI (sidenote: I haven't seen anyone in this thread claim that they can "carry" the show). From late Jan to April, the focus of the story was overwhelmingly on Sami's interactions with Elvis. There was the faking of the amnio, the poison lipstick plot, Elvis demanding that they elope to Vegas etc. Lucas had no role in any of this and was written as a complete doofus to facilitate Elvis's reign of terror. You won't see LUMI fans raving about the past 5 months as though it was some kind of great love story for the couple. Along with many other DAYS fans, they felt alienated by the overexposure of Elvis. And yes, I accept that there are numerous other factors that resulted in the plunge.

As for the wedding "flopping"...

WEDNESDAY, MAY 9, 2007

1.(1) Y&R: Wednesday: 4.0/5,089,000 (-543,000)

2.(3) GH: Wednesday: 2.7/3,699,000 (+196,000)

3.(2) B&B: Wednesday: 2.9/3,604,000 (-441,000)

4.(6) AMC: Wednesday: 2.4/3,260,000 (+125,000)

5.(5) OLTL: Wednesday: 2.4/3,254,000 (+105,000)

6.(4) ATWT: Wednesday: 2.3/3,038,000 (-442,000)

7.(8) DAYS: Wednesday: 2.1/2,800,000 (+300,000) - Lumi's wedding

8.(7) GL: Wednesday: 2.0/2,541,000 (-515,000)

9.(9) PSNS: Wednesday: 1.3/1,729,000 (-20,000)

I'm sure TPTB were disappointed that they couldn't sustain this 300,000 gain over the whole week. But IMO, that says more about the effect of Sami being *exposed* for the 54674632th time. All of the extra viewers who tuned in for the "I do's" tuned out again after that picture showed up in the slideshow. Moreover, you can cite all the spoilers/promos/internet gimmicks you want but most viewers form expectations based on what they see ON THE SHOW. The build-up to the wedding sucked and most of the signs pointed towards Sami getting dumped again. That isn't a recipe for ratings success, regardless of the popularity of the couple.

Edited May 29, 200718 yr by Ponz

I couldn't disagree more lol. I want EJ far away from Sami (and DAYS). Lumi all the way!!

Cheers! Couldn't agree more. Keep the rapist away from Sami!

Keep the attempted murderer and abuser away from Sami.

Say NO to the slurping on the couch and the ratings Lami.

Sami's a rapist. EJ's a rapist. That, and the fact they're hot together, makes it romantic.

I'll join Ponz, ClayZebra, Cheyenne, AMC Zendal Fan on the Lumi bandwagon.

What is the kiss of death, exactly?

MARRIAGE.

They're living together in happy, domesticated bliss.

How many times can we hear them have the following exchange?

SAMI: I love you.

LUCAS: I love you more.

SAMI: No, I love YOU more!

LUCAS: No, I love YOU more! Wanna have sex?

SAMI: Okay! Where?

LUCAS: I love YOU more!

Gimme a freakin' break! LoL It's so sugary sweet, I want to vomit! Sami and Lucas are former partners in crime -- the scheme team! They were the ANTI-COUPLE. The fact that they're now more saccharine and sugary than Shawn and Belle tells me that there's something seriously wrong with their relationship dynamics.

Very few people can pull off "happily married" and still keep the passion alive in a soap opera relationship. Bo and Hope have done it, but that's a one-in-a-lifetime sort of chemistry.

In my personal opinion, Alison Sweeney and Bryan Dattillo are too much like brother/sister in their real life relationship for Sami and Lucas to come across as anything more than best friends. Everytime they kiss, it's like watching a brother and sister make out... so wrong, awkward and icky.

Sami and Lucas as a married couple have no possibilities, creatively, except for the same old push-and-pull rehash of the past, and that's grown stale. At least with EJ, are are possibilities and all sorts of avenues that they could take with the story -- all of which are fresh and new for both characters.. Plus, they're both bad guys, so their personalities won't have to be completely changed just to fit the coupling. As for those who say that EJ raped her and Sami could never forgive him... don't forget, Sami is a rapist, herself! If she knows that she, herself, could change and feel remorse for what she did, I'm sure that she could give the same benefit of the doubt to EJ.

Then finally, there's the whole factor of chemistry, which James Scott and Alison Sweeney seem to have in spades. I think they should go for it!

i so agree with you! I actually said this weeks ago about Lucas and Sami being so sweet and people didnt understand.I am not expecting the characters to go back to pulling juvenile schemes but they were the anti couple so to speak......Hogan however sees things differently...I wonder how he is going to write John and Marlena now that john is out of the coma

I'm of both scenarios.

I think it's unfair to write Lucas off. This is a soap opera. Longevity can not be ignored just because chemistry is more favorable in your opinion. If written correctly, this triangle has the potential to be truely difficult to resolve.

The LUMI factor. I won't rehash everything, but the fact of the matter is, their history will never remove Lucas from Sami's life. Sami's character has forever longed for acceptance and unconditional love. She does have that with Lucas, after lots of hack writing. They share a son. She's been through a messy divorce, and it screwed her up. Sami would want to make this marriage work.

However, EJ does present intrigue for Sami. Yes, he raped her. Her being a rapist neither cancels that out, nor makes it right. The circumstances of the rape, howeverm are not cut and dry, or black and white. That's why I laugh with the opposing fan bases thinking that it's their way or nothing. Where's the fun in that? I think the potential for great drama in this triangle is too great to ignore. This would easily be Sami's greatest triangle, The only one that's truly fair.

At least, if written with heart. However, I feel that the writing is going to favor and push EJ, which isn't right, IMO. Writing for characters on soaps has become far too one-sided and pimp-y in the past ten years. The viewers have the intelligence to choose their own corner, and make this triangle viable and exciting to watch, every step of the way. The only necessessity is that Sami is no longer a victim, EJ is no longer inhuman, and Lucas is no longer a pushover. They've done that much. I say let the story play out, and sit back, and relax, and enjoy. I know I will.

Although I find it interesting that you didn't quote anything between 1995 and 2003 when it comes to Lucas and Sami. How about the time when Lucas was in a coma, and Sami was screaming at him, wanting him to die. That was romantic

Well, since you find that interesting, allow me to elaborate. In a post of yours (#45 in this thread) you said "other than he is Will's father, what does Sami see in him?" I responded (#46) that Sami saw Lucas as childhood friend, someone she trusts, someone she is attracted to, someone with whom she has fought but whom she has forgiven and by whom she has been forgiven, etc. You responded (#47) that while I see it that way, there is no indication that the character of Sami does. Therefore, I replied (#49) with several examples of flashbacks and quotes that suggest that Sami does see things in Lucas other than that he's Will's father. I didn't have any 1995-2003 quotes off the top of my head that illustrated my point-- that Sami sees Lucas as more than Will's father-- as well as the older and newer ones I used. If I listed all of the Sami/Lucas moments I love and that I think show that they belong together, this would become a verrrry long thread. However, if you really want me to share some of my favorite Lumi quotes and moments from 1995-2003, I'd be happy to do so.

As for Sami screaming at Lucas while he was comatose, I wouldn't specifically call those scenes romantic, but I would call them nuanced and passionate. Those scenes were preceeded by scenes of Sami having flashbacks and remembering her friendship with Lucas. That wasn't just Sami hating on her enemy and fearing that Lucas waking up would end her pseudo-family with Austin and Will; that was Sami regretting that things had gone so far wrong with someone who was once her closest friend.

I don't at all believe that Lumi were warm and fuzzy in love for all the years that have passed since 1993. I know they were friends, then enemies, then friends, then romantic. To me, that's part of what makes them interesting-- they've had this wild ride across every kind of emotion (except indifference). In 2002 or 2003, they finally started seeing that there had been something right in front of them for a decade that they'd never thought to want before. And that was special and beautiful. Still is.

I'm just trying to figure out how EJ's "rape" of Sami is why that relationship could never happen, but Lucas letting Sami go on death row for a murder he comitted, is ok. Explain the difference please

I'll just go with what Ponz has said, since it was said so well. Lumi were engaged in a two-side conflict; Sami and her family did nothing to EJ before he started tormenting them all. For me, the problem isn't just the rape. There's the fact that EJ has, without provocation or explanation, attacked EVERYONE Sami loves, from her parents to her children to her sister. I don't want to see Sami as a cartoon villainess who doesn't care what the latest DiMera has done to her stepfather, uncle, cousins, and friends. I want to see her as a complicated antiheroine who struggles to do what's best for herself and her children and doesn't quite fit as easily with her sometimes-holier-than-thou family.

I'm aware that now Sami has done some things to EJ that he'd rather she hadn't, like helping the cops investigate him. But Sami playing cop to EJ's criminal just isn't the same as Sami playing criminal to Lucas's other criminal. There is, of course, the burning alive incident, but that was orchestrated by EJ via Celeste, not Sami.

But the REAL reason EJ/Sami could never happen, beyond any rapist-and-his-rape-victim-Stockholm Syndrome ickiness, is that Sami loves Lucas. Lucas has been in Sami's life since she was fifteen years old, and he will never be out of it. She can't get Lucas out of her mind even when she wants to; why would she let him go now that she has him?

However, I feel that the writing is going to favor and push EJ, which isn't right, IMO. Writing for characters on soaps has become far too one-sided and pimp-y in the past ten years. The viewers have the intelligence to choose their own corner, and make this triangle viable and exciting to watch, every step of the way. The only necessessity is that Sami is no longer a victim, EJ is no longer inhuman, and Lucas is no longer a pushover. They've done that much. I say let the story play out, and sit back, and relax, and enjoy. I know I will.

Keith, I see what you are saying, and I definitely prefer nuanced triangles over this ping-ponging back and forth. When this whole EJ-Sami-Lucas stuff started last fall I did want the triangle. The writers could have given us a truly brilliant one and made this story a lot less polarizing for fans had they let Sami have sex with EJ without the coercion but then right afterward have her break things off with him because she found out he was a Dimera. Maybe something she found out would scare her and she would take comfort in Lucas's arms that night and that would be how TPTB would still get their who's the daddy storyline.

But the writers didn't give us that. After Lucas slandering Sami the entire summer and making a big show of how much happier he was with Sami's sister than he ever could have been with her, like a month later Lucas was getting Sami handed to him on a silver platter after dropping a couple paint cans and stink bombs and some whining by Will about wanting their family back together. And then Sami had to save Lucas in a way that would make her hate E.J. And then Sami had to be forgiven by Lucas for lying about how she saved him at her wedding. Ugh. As if Lucas was such an angel himself he deserved all that groveling from Sami. Give me a freaking break.

All this has just made me hate Lucas because this isn't a fair triangle and hasn't been in a long time because of all the undeserved pimping for Lucas up to this point. If they are now pimping EJ being with Sami rather than just writing some basic redemption stuff then I cheer the writers for doing it because it is so long past due. If they really want to make this Sami's greatest triangle it'd also be nice if we could see some of Lucas's old flaws resurface, too, like maybe he starts sneaking a drink or two thinking about the fact that Sami may be carrying another man's child, the fact that he's now unemployed and feeling some guilt because of the way he threw his mother under the bus when she was right about so many things that Sami lied about heading into their marriage. Or we could just some demonstration of him being insecure and suspicious over the fact that Sami is spending so much time with EJ. The hiding in the bushes at Maison Blanche was a good start to this. I think he has reason to be suspicious and I could like him better if he wasn't portrayed as so uncurious and clueless about everything.

I've never seen the appeal of Lumi like everyone has. I don't think they have any sexual chemistry together and I agree with Kenny that they have a sibling-like dynamic.

Now, I've only been watching Days in spurts but EJ is the one guy Sami has had chemistry with in a loooong time..rape or no rape. I'm not all that concerned with what's right here, either...there's a lot of things on soaps that "aren't right". But I think the story potential and dynamic between Sami & EJ would make for some really interesting stuff to play out. Add the tremendous chemistry they both share and you've got a winner.

I don't at all believe that Lumi were warm and fuzzy in love for all the years that have passed since 1993. I know they were friends, then enemies, then friends, then romantic. To me, that's part of what makes them interesting-- they've had this wild ride across every kind of emotion (except indifference).

And those are the exact same reasons I root for EJ and Sami. The wild ride. Their ride is just beginning. The two of them started out as friends, became enemies, and now they're starting to become friends again. Can't wait to see what's next for them. As for Lucas and Sami, their ride is pretty much over with Lucas standing by her at the wedding. The only way I can see Lucas and Sami would become enemies again (which is when they have their best chemistry IMO) is if Sami cheats or Lucas thinks Sami cheats and Sami dumps him. And if Sami cheated then I don't think they could become friends again and certainly never romantic again. The Lucas and Sami ride is no longer wild and I don't see how it could be again.

There's the fact that EJ has, without provocation or explanation, attacked EVERYONE Sami loves, from her parents to her children to her sister. I don't want to see Sami as a cartoon villainess who doesn't care what the latest DiMera has done to her stepfather, uncle, cousins, and friends. I want to see her as a complicated antiheroine who struggles to do what's best for herself and her children and doesn't quite fit as easily with her sometimes-holier-than-thou family.

I don't want to see Sami a cartoon either. But at her core, Sami is selfish and shrewd and is only guilty about what she's done if she thinks she's going to be caught or has been caught for as much as much as she whines about just wanting to be loved and accepted by her family. As if Sami hasn't attacked EVERYONE she claims to love from her parents to her children to her sister without provocation or explanation in the past? Obviously not on the same scale as the DiMeras, but she has. I don't see why being with EJ or developing feelings for EJ again would make her stop being that complicated antiheroine who struggled with her holier-than-thou family. A big part of the reason I root for EJ and Sami is last fall's "anti-Brady" episode where EJ encouraged her to stand up to her family and Sami wound up drunk and belligerent at Carrie and Austin's wedding.

But the REAL reason EJ/Sami could never happen, beyond any rapist-and-his-rape-victim-Stockholm Syndrome ickiness, is that Sami loves Lucas. Lucas has been in Sami's life since she was fifteen years old, and he will never be out of it. She can't get Lucas out of her mind even when she wants to; why would she let him go now that she has him?

Maybe because Sami has always been about the thrill of the chase? Sami has never had a man stand by her before so who is to say how she will react to that. She's always been about planning that next wedding or hatching that next scheme or getting that next guy to fall in love with her. Yeah she says this happily ever after/happy family thing is all she's ever wanted, but she's often confused about what she really wants and oh yeah, she lies. A lot.

And this Sami loves Lucas stuff. Yeah. I agree. She loves him. But I don't get where there is some unshakable, nothing can ever come between us love there on Sami's part. Maybe now on Lucas's part but not hers. Not after her making such a fool of him all those months she lied about what happened the night she saved his life and not after she chose to drug him over telling him the truth. And even refused to tell him the truth when she found out EJ was alive and only considered telling him once it was clear that Lucas was going to find out anyway. I mean, I am trying to come up with any point in this latest Lucas and Sami courtship where we got to see Sami have this epiphany that Lucas is the one she wanted. Instead it's been more like, "Gee, I don't want to be alone and this will make Will and my family happy so I hope Lucas will have me." The way I see it she wound up with Lucas by default because of the way things went sour with her and EJ.