John McCain wants to overturn Roe v. Wade

[JER Soaps Fan]

Thanks for bringing up another argument that pro-choice America uses to discredit our position. PRO-LIFERS ARE helping the poor! Who says we're not? Just because we don't flaunt it like we do the abortion issue, doesn't mean those issues aren't areas of concern. The abortion issue, naturally, will get the most press or the most visibility because that IS the most important issue, we believe, of our time. Sorry, but before anything else in the world happens, I'm not going to stand idly by as innocent human beings are treated, and labeled, waste. That's no way to "live." That's no way to be treated. The only hypocrisy I see is in the pro-choice position, for those who say, "I could never have an abortion (because essentially, I believe it's life), but I know others don't share my views, so that's why I'm pro-choice." That particular position smacks of hypocrisy because you can't believe a life is being taken, and know what happens to that life during the procedure, and still say you're pro-choice. It's ridiculous. A comedian (I forget who) also pointed out another hypocritical pro-choice stance, for those who say, "I'm pro-life, except in the case of rape or incest." Sorry, but if you're truly pro-life, you can't reconcile abortion in any stance.

Yes, I'm ranting, lol, and most of that had nothing to do with your post, I'm just saying.

[JER Soaps Fan]

Again, the first isn't a valid argument, at least not from where I'm standing. Every church I know about funds successful programs for mothers of unplanned or otherwise "unwanted" pregnancies. Women can receive free diapers, formula and other supplies. There really is no excuse to have an abortion with all the organizations that help. If you look around, you can find an organization willing to help.

[JER Soaps Fan]

Sorry, but the whole first part of that post made absolutely no sense. At least, it didn't pertain to anything I've said thus far, which is why I was perplexed by being quoted!

I have never said that my stance on abortion comes from religion.

I have repeatedly said abortion is not a religious issue.

And once again, someone who is pro-choice is trollying out the religious and "God" arguments.

I'm not saying abortion should be outlawed because of anything in the Bible.

FORGET THE BIBLE.

Abortion should be outlawed as a matter of principle. The gruesomeness of it. The fact that this is happening to A LIVING being. (Something can't grow and evolve unless it's living, so spare me the "potential life" argument coined by pro-choice America.) That we do this to our own kind. That, in the end, abortion rights advocates have NOTHING to show for their efforts, excepting millions of childless woman and a bloody heap of over 40 million dead, mutilated, charred fetuses.

That's no movement.

That's a genocide of sorts.

It's sickening.

Forget God.

Forget the Bible.

None of that goes with this argument.

After all, that would just discredit this position, since not all are religious.

[Kylie]

But outlawing it won't make it stop. You're just going to force women to go to back woods clinics, that are more then likely not safe, not sterile, and could kill the mother. You seem to think just because you force a woman to have a baby, means you can force her to want it too. So she doesn't abort the baby, she'll leave it to die in a dumpster, in the woods, abadoned somehere, etc. Making abortion illegal isn't going to change things, it's just going to make you think it will. But that so called number of dead fetuees you gave, could more then likely end up being the number of dead mothers. Take your pick, you can't have both ways.

[JER Soaps Fan]

Or not. Condoms are not 100 percent effective! You know that.

You're also changing the pro-lifers' perspective. This is not some agenda to control your body. The pro-life agenda stems from one thing only: humane treatment of fetuses, dignified treatment of human life. Respect for life at all stages.

That's all.

I don't care if you have birth control. I do care if you take the RU-486 pill. I don't care about condoms.

But at the same time, I disagree that preaching that sex "isn't bad" and do it "safe," you're okay, is the best approach. And I understand the abstinence only programs.

Abortions, STIs and emotional probems that stem from sex would all end if everyone decided to save sex for marriage and after that, just accept pregnancy as a natural phenomenon and embrace it.

Granted, that's the best possible scenario. I know people won't do that. Not everyone would subscribe to that belief. It may even be a pipe dream. But I have to wonder if all this "sex is okay, just be safe" talk isn't counterproductive, since you know as well as I do that sexual activity has only INCREASED since Planned Parenthood and contraception messages have run rampant on TV, billboards, the radio and the Internet. These days, teenagers give oral like they'd give handshakes in the 1940s and 50s.

Something is wrong, and I don't believe the "safe sex" campaigns will heal that.

[JER Soaps Fan]

I disagree, Marilyn.

Yes, God preaches about free will (or so we believe, according to "The Bible"), but that doesn't translate to the legal system in the U.S. -- not absolutely. Nor do I believe it should translate to abortion. If I believe that abortion is murder, then certainly I'm going to compare an unjustified abortion "rights" law to the hypocrisy in outlawing murder of those who are outside of the womb. Surely, there are MANY psychos out there who have "free will," given by God, of whether or not to kill John Doe or Mary Smith beause they stole their lover or did something equally terrible to them.

However, that doesn't mean the courts should give them that right.

God's "free will" provides that people may choose good over evil, or vice versa.

That doesn't mean emotionally charged issues, such as abortion, should be given a lighter hand by the courts. It just means that God, GOD, will not STOP you from committing a certain action.

It means that you are physically capable of doing something and God, in his infinite wisdom, won't "change your mind" or force you to bend to the divine will.

People often confuse what "free will" really is.

It just means that people aren't carbon copies of God and have their own thoughts, views and behaviors.

[JER Soaps Fan]

Me, too.

The funny thing is pro-choice activists are conflicted and confounded by their very issue! I noticed someone in here said, during the first trimester it's just a clump of cells, basically, so what's the big deal? And yet, a pro-choice colleage of mine, who is incredibly intelligent and politically conscious (she even worked on the presidential campaign team of a Democratic candidate) argued the exact OPPOSITE when we talked about it. It's not just a clump of cells, that's just pro-life rhetoric to discredit the pro-choice position! It's all about a woman's body, autonomy, equal rights!

But yeah. That's definitely a living human. Not a clump of cells. And certainly not something to throw out like yesterday's trash -- literally.

[JER Soaps Fan]

You're kidding, right?

I've seen this before, too.

Pro-choicers see the TRUTH and are so shocked, it MUST be pro-life propaganda.

It's the TRUTH, people.

Even first trimesters have some development that clearly distinguishes their humanity.

Geez!

[Kylie]

We can get technical if you want, but begun means they're not formed. Which means, that it's not alive, yet. If you don't have the vital organs, up, running and working...you're not alive. A heart a brain can work, but that doesn't mean you're alive, brain damn proves that.

[JER Soaps Fan]

Abortion may be at the lowest rate in history, but over 40 million fetuses have lost their chance because of it. That's too much. And THOUSANDS are killed it's day. That's ridiculous and shameful.

I see no positives there. Maybe a slight, blip of a positive, if it's true that abortions are at their lowest recorded rates. But still, no real strides for humanity when you have Democratic senators arguing the need for partial birth abortion.

Also, you lost me when you made the point about the reason behind most abortions. I already knew it was birth control. It sickens me. And that's why it should stay legal? So women can be irresponsible, selfish pricks (sorry!) who abort-on-demand?! That's going to be the argument that pushes me over the edge. I disagree with rape or incest abortions but in no way, no way, will I just stand idly by and NOT get mad over an argument of abortion-on-demand.

And I disagree that America will EVER be better off until we STOP KILLING OUR MOST INNOCENT AND VULNERABLE. It's shameful. How can we ever be taken seriously as long as we do this to our own kind? It baffles me.

And A-gain, no one said everyone shares the Christian or Catholic faith. This is just an issue that has caused division, like slavery and other issues before it, that, like those issues, I hope will soon cause most people to wake up and realize the truth.

[JER Soaps Fan]

THANK YOU, HOGAN!!!

NO ONE, at least, no one I recognized, and certainly not I, argued the outlaw of abortion based on religious reasons.

You want propaganda, Danni?

Check out ALL those people who ignored my posts or twisted the words, whether not realizing it, to turn me or my views into some right-wing, religious, patriarchal figurehead who is trying to blur the line between church and state.

I'm baffled by where most of the above posts came from, since religion and the darn Bible were never an equation or even a thought in my mind!

[JER Soaps Fan]

But that's NOT TRUE.

We live in America and still, in the land of the free, we cannot: steal, kill, cheat on taxes, lie under oath and a number of other things such as engage in prostitution (in most states)! Why should abortion be any different? Especially when it's far more serious than prostitution or those other things? It's killing. And that's already outlawed, outside the womb.

After abortion is outlawed, why worry about the women going to Mexico to BREAK THE LAW? They're criminals. Sorry.

[Kylie]

JSF you're not answering the biggest question that we're asking: How is making it illegal going to stop it?

There is THOUSANDS of years of history behind the practice. Thousands. It's been legal, illegal, and lots of things in between, but it has NEVER stopped. So how do you think now is different?

You can't make a woman want a baby. You can make her have it (if you and our government get their way) but you can not make her want it. And if she doesn't want it, she's not going to raise it. And most woman who are that desperate are going to dump the baby. Leave it for dead, maybe kill it themselves. That's the answer? Make them have the babies, only for them to abandon, kill them? Isn't it all the same?

Umm, no women won't go to Mexico. There has always been illegal clinics in the U.S. that will do the procedure. And you're siting here preeching the value of life, but you don't care that many woman could and probably would die from having illegal abortions. Do they deserve it, is that what you're saying? That seems just as BAD as you say abortions are.

[JER Soaps Fan]

Yes, you're right. But the difference is, if abortion is a crime, then the woman is taking that risk. She chooses her own fate. And I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for someone who would not only break the law but kill her innocent, living child. There's a better way.

I do believe, however, that the number of abortion would decline further, due to the fear of becoming pregnant or the fear of having to resort to the back alley measure. Or just the fear of being a criminal. Only the lowest of the low, and mentally unstable or emotionally unstable, would seriously kill their own child and risk personal harm. Of course, I say that now but look at all the heartless abortion "doctors" who suck out fetuses every day like their doing liposuction.

[JER Soaps Fan]

Wow, I disagree with that! If you're growing, evolving, there is life.

Maybe you can't talk, maybe you're not even conscious, but you're definitely a living form.