I can't believe I'm saying this but I totally agree with you on that point kwing. I've always felt that the man should have at least some say on what happens. It's not right that they can be totally shut out if the woman chooses to terminate, but if the woman decides to keep it, then they have no other choice BUT to be involved. Of course they should be involved and help financially support their child, I do not quibble there. But they also should have at least a little bit of say in whether the fetus that is 1/2 made up of their DNA gets the opportunity to develop into a full-grown, healthy baby.

I don't think that a woman should be forced to go through a 9 month pregnancy and childbirth (and all of the physical/emotional risk/pain) just because the father wants her to. I also don't believe the father should have no obligation (financial or otherwise) because he "didn't want it". I really don't see it as a double standard unless the father is going to gestate the baby for half of the pregnancy. I do, however, feel that the father should have some rights to the child once it is born. If the mother does not want to keep the baby, the father should automatically be entitled to assume custody. Even if the mother does want the child, she should not be able to exclude the father even if it is more convenient for her to. By the way, I am male, so this is a male perspective.

I'm personally pro-choice, because just beign pregnant is not enough of a reason to brign a child into this world. I see too many bad situations for kids to think anything else.

McCain's never had my vote. Guess that's not changing.

ITA~! And I don't think that anyone is really ProAbortion, everyone one wants to save life, but it's a woman's body~! All I can do is roll my eyes at this man. We need a major change already.

I persoanlly could never have an abortion. But I have no right to tell another woman that she can't. That's what this comes down to for me. Every woman having a right, and a choice to do what is best for her. It's not about being pro-abortion or anti-abortion even, it's about having options and being able to have a say in her life.

People need to stop trying to govern the country with their individual religious belief's. I'm thisclose to moving to Canada and if someone like McCain gets into power, I'm as good as gone.

When will people realize that abortion=population control? LOL.

On a serious note, I think the first trimester is a good window of time to decide whether or not you want a kid. After that, just keep the damn baby in you until you give birth. You're already showing, what else do you have to lose? What turns my stomach is thinking about partial birth abortions, where they take the fully grown and developed baby and kill it as it's coming out of the mom. WTF is the point in that? Just give the baby up for adoption, sell it on the black market, anything but that! My God!

Even though I'm not a woman, I think that sealed McCain's fate for me. Guess if he runs, I'll be for SURE voting Dems like I always do. Gay marriage isn't even as hot button for me as abortion. If a woman makes an oops, then let her deal with it. Keep unwanted babies in babyland.

Roe doesn't include partial birth abortions. It only legalizes abortions in the first trimester, with provisions for the second under certain circumstances.

My feeling is if a woman can decide to terminate a pregnancy without the fathers approval, then a father should not be forced to pay for a child he did not want in the first place.

If a woman can term a pregnancy when the man wants the child, then a woman should have no claims to the mans finances should he NOT want the child.

Enough with the double standard already.

I understand its a womans body...but it takes two to tango. I am not saying abortion should be outlawed because I do not think it should be, but I am saying more thought needs to be put into ALL aspects of the situation, NOT just the side of the mother.

And I do not think it is wrong for people to be for or against it and I think it is pretty sad that peoples religous beliefs are called into question because of how they feel, whether they are for or against it.

I do believe it is a choice, but it should be a choice that BOTH in the situation help decide.

Call me stupid, but I think that is fair. This uborn...whatever you want to call it (we were all "it" to and we are humans) should be given a chance if a parent wants to raise it.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I totally agree with you on that point kwing. I've always felt that the man should have at least some say on what happens. It's not right that they can be totally shut out if the woman chooses to terminate, but if the woman decides to keep it, then they have no other choice BUT to be involved. Of course they should be involved and help financially support their child, I do not quibble there. But they also should have at least a little bit of say in whether the fetus that is 1/2 made up of their DNA gets the opportunity to develop into a full-grown, healthy baby

Then wear a freaking condom!

^^I love you Bradeis!

When will people realize that abortion=population control? LOL.

On a serious note, I think the first trimester is a good window of time to decide whether or not you want a kid. After that, just keep the damn baby in you until you give birth. You're already showing, what else do you have to lose? What turns my stomach is thinking about partial birth abortions, where they take the fully grown and developed baby and kill it as it's coming out of the mom. WTF is the point in that? Just give the baby up for adoption, sell it on the black market, anything but that! My God!

Even though I'm not a woman, I think that sealed McCain's fate for me. Guess if he runs, I'll be for SURE voting Dems like I always do. Gay marriage isn't even as hot button for me as abortion. If a woman makes an oops, then let her deal with it. Keep unwanted babies in babyland.

I have to agree. Partial birth abortions turn my stomach. At some point, it is too late to change your mind. A nurse friend of mine has told me stories of delivering "live" abortions that were induced with prostaglandins. Prostaglandins induce labor but are not lethal to the fetus like the old hypertonic saline method. They would just put a towel over fetus/premature infant until it stopped breathing so they didn't have to look at it. Crushing the scull prevents that from happening I guess but is certainly unethical by my standard. The only justification I could think of would be if it was necessary to save the mother's life. I think most abortions occur in the first trimester and are less grusome. I still think abortion is a tragity but I am not in favor of reversing Roe v Wade or forcing the pregnant woman or girl to be a the mercy of her boyfriend regarding carrying the baby to term. I do, however, think men have every right to have their opinion on this matter. I find it somewhat annoying when a man's opinion is just dismissed because "he isn't the one who gets pregnant". That would be like saying post-menopausal women, women who have had hysterectomies and infertile women also can't voice their opinions.

^^I love you Bradeis!

I love you back! Are you still considering moving? How are the kitties?

I must admit the "little guy" is driving me crazy with his rodent toys.

I don't think that Roe is saying women have the only say, it's giving us some say. Many pro-choice supporters would say it's very important for the father to be involved in the entire decision making process, whatever it may be. That's not discouraged. What McCain wants to do, is take all choice or safe choice from women and put it ultimately in the hands of men. Because lets face it, who are the main law makers, men. Why does John McCain care what I do with my body or my baby? How does it really hurt him?

And just so we're clear about all of this, Roe does NOT legalize anything more then first trimester abortions. It gives provisions for conditions in which second trimester abortions can be legally be preformed, but does not make them legal. So Roe has nothing to do with partial birth abortions.

Edited February 20, 200718 yr by Kylie

I love you back! Are you still considering moving? How are the kitties?

I must admit the "little guy" is driving me crazy with his rodent toys.

Not to get too off topic, but moving is still up in the air and it wouldn't be until early next year, just had a lot of stuff come falling down around me since the start of the year...

and the cats are doing great, those little aliens

but, back on topic:

I do agree, use a condom, I mean yes, in a perfect world, things would be different, but a guy doesn't have to actually give birth to the baby. If abortion is the planned route, then, yes, the earlier the better, and hopefully you have a partner who fully supports you in your decision.

:steps off his soapbox::

and ETA: yaya, you gave me my 1,600th post

Edited February 20, 200718 yr by mateo22

I don't think that Roe is saying women have the only say, it's giving us some say. Many pro-choice supporters would say it's very important for the father to be involved in the entire decision making process, whatever it may be. That's not discouraged. What McCain wants to do, is take all choice or safe choice from women and put it ultimately in the hands of men. Because lets face it, who are the main law makers, men. Why does John McCain care what I do with my body or my baby? How does it really hurt him?

And just so we're clear about all of this, Roe does NOT legalize anything more then first trimester abortions. It gives provisions for conditions in which second trimester abortions can be legally be preformed, but does not make them legal. So Roe has nothing to do with partial birth abortions.

Men need to use condoms, period... or DOT

Men need to use condoms, period... or DOT

The only way that we'll make any progress in limiting abortions is to teach and practice safe sex. ITA, about condom's, hell, double up, condoms and the pill, it's twice as much protection. Ultimately, preventing pregnancy is the way to go. But giving women a say in things if she ends up needing one, isn't wrong.

Not to get too off topic, but moving is still up in the air and it wouldn't be until early next year, just had a lot of stuff come falling down around me since the start of the year...

and the cats are doing great, those little aliens

but, back on topic:

I do agree, use a condom, I mean yes, in a perfect world, things would be different, but a guy doesn't have to actually give birth to the baby. If abortion is the planned route, then, yes, the earlier the better, and hopefully you have a partner who fully supports you in your decision.

:steps off his soapbox::

and ETA: yaya, you gave me my 1,600th post

Doncha just love the little aliens? Mine is driving me nuts with little toy rodents but he's not making other little aliens. Yes! Some women are !@#$%^&*]es and want to get pregnant. USE A RUBBER!

My brother is a gay male (he's really cute, Mateo) and he's just a tad older than me but he's smart - WHEN IN DOUBT, USE A CONDOM! It works for straight people too.

Any animal can reproduce. If you don't want to, take precautions, and assume your partner hasn't.

I'm not understanding who's saying not to have safe sex?

And for the record, people do get pregnant even using condoms. My mom got pregnant TWICE on the pill. So nothing is 100%. But safe sex is always the best method to prevent the abortion debate in the first place. One of the most informative places I ever went concerning sex, was Planned Parenthood. You even say "abstenience" in the building, and they'll laugh at you. LOL The problem isn't abortion, it's sending our youth out into the world uneducated and naive about sex. If we take the taboo off sex, stop stigmatizing it as something bad, and start teaching how to have it safely (because they are doing it) then we might finally make strides to minimzing abortion to the level where it doesn't have to be legal to be safe.