Supernatural: Discussion Thread

[Skin]

I would say even with Castiel's confession of love, that is a very specific way to view the scene in that what Castiel is referring to is romantic love instead of familial love, which is kind of the problem. Fans of that pairing refuse to consider or think about anything outside of a romantic or sexual perspective when it comes to their ship. Even when the show has told them time and time again that no, that is not what is happening here. I am all for a death to the author perspectives, artists don't have control over their work or how people interpret it after their art work is released. I am completely onboard with that, but you can't deny aspects of the work because you don't like it, then draw your own conclusions that don't come from the sourced text, and then get upset when your perspective isn't validated by the artists larger and more subsequent creations, just because they are not what you want it to be. That's not what death to the author is, that's you getting upset because your fan fiction didn't become on text television. The Destiel fandom has done this for years now. It's so tiring.

 

I basically think even if the CW and SPN writers wanted to throw the Destiel fans a bone, that fan base would take that inch and ask for a mile. The writers never should have engaged them in the first place because they never were going to be satisfied. Cas tells Dean I love you, and they still want more. The writers tell them Destiel is not going to happen and the fan base ignores them. If the writers don't have Dean say "I love you back to him", the immediate reaction from the fanbase is the network, actor and show writers are all homophobic and it's a conspiracy! They've even latched on to foreign translations from multiple countries to say that the CW is homophobic and is silencing Misha and Jensen. It's cringeworthy.

 

Regarding the show and it's content and the idea that supporting characters are important, this show has always been the Sam and Dean show, they are the only characters that have appeared in all 327 episodes. The first supporting character in the series Bobby, didn't come on the show until the back end of season 1. There was and should have been a focus on them in the series finale given that it's their show. It's right on the tin, and has been on the tin for years now. That fan base of a very specific ship just refused to see it.  

Edited December 6, 2020 by Skin

[Ben]

When you have Micha Collins confirming that it was a romantic declaration of love, then it’s understandable that fans would want more. I know the showrunners said Destiel wasn’t happening, but they had to expect there would be a backlash when they did a u-turn like this. It doesn’t take a genius to realise that this ending would be unsatisfactory to many. I’m not defending the hardcore shippers, because these things always get taken too far, and people will see what they want to see, and deny anything that challenges that perspective. But I do think there is a valid point here.

 

Sure it’s always been the Sam and Dean show, but I do feel like it evolved into something more than that, so for them to strip all that away at the denouement is deeply unsatisfactory to me. There are ways of writing an ending that keeps S&D the main focus without decimating the supporting cast and the new ethos that they themselves had woven into the show. They had Sam and Dean develop relationships, friendships, and redefine the meaning of family, so to kill them all off just to say: ‘actually, the only thing that matters is each other - the brotherhood’ was disappointing and unnecessary. It didn’t need to be that way. 

[Skin]

Yeah, I just disagree. I personally find it hard to see the point behind the "I didn't get my ship", members of social media who at max represent a handful of thousands of people. The show is still in the top 10 of most watched series on Netflix, so if the finale was hated so adamantly I find it hard to believe it would still be streaming so highly weeks after the series finale. There's a difference between Game of Thrones finale and this one. Even with stan twitter going off it seems like the legacy of SPN is well intact. 

 

The problem with a lot of the Destiel twitter fan arguments is that they just do this all the time. Everything is a smokescreen to make their objections appear more valid. They did this time and time again through out the series of the show. Jensen doesn't like the Destiel ship because he views his character as straight the fans start a campaign telling everyone who will listen Jensen is homophobic, writers post a tweet saying they liked the finale, twitter fans dox the writers into deleting it, on and on. It's just very obvious what they are upset with. 

 

Misha is a cast member who has fluctuated from being a regular to guest star to recurring over the period of 12 years, because he can't find a job elsewhere. He will do and say anything he can to remain on the show as long as possible, so he gets a paycheck and can remain employed. He will feed the fans of a particular ship because it gives him relevance to appear on the show long past his sell by date. If you are going to look at extraneous sources of data and make them valid as an argument to what the canon text says, then you also have to look at the biases implicit within those sources. Misha will say and do anything that makes him more important to the series and show. Saying that he loves Dean makes his character more important and increases his profile because then he can have more scenes with one of the shows leads. If Misha is saying something it's his opinion. Honestly Castiel's "I love you" was said back in season 13, and it was said to Jack, Sam and Dean and it was taken platonically. Now all of the sudden his "I love you" is romantic, when the context is more or less that same - he said both phrases as he was set to die. If the "I love you" was supposed to be romantic, it could have been written as "I am in love with you" to be more explicit. 

 

 

I'm looking at the episode counts and screen time and again I just don't see it. The only actors who have more than a season worth of episodes are: Rowena (33), Mary (37), Lucifer (38), Jack (39), Bobby (68), Crowley (67) and Castiel (146). This is a show that lasted 327 episodes. Bobby was actually in the finale - but the rest of these characters were on the show for less than 50% of the time it was even on. Some appeared for only 10% of the shows episodes, yet the argument is they should have been included in the series finale. I don't see the point of having a bunch of extras who only lasted a few seasons here and there to bloat an episode that was only going to last 45 minutes or less. When the lead characters, who this show is about have the equivalence of 8 seasons more airtime and screen time then they do.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Skin

[ChitHappens]

Drama Drama.  I've seen a few eppies and I liked it.  

 

I have to agree with Jared here.  Why not at least let him know?
 

 

[victoria foxton]

Jensen is milking 

Please register in order to view this content

 SN. He doesn't want to share the A prequel with the parents. Is problematic since so much of their backstory was seen. In the 900 yrs SN was on.