But in all seriousness... I like this show, I think it's the best thing on the air right now. but don't get me wrong, it's a 7, while Knots Landing was a 10.

This is a part of my prob with B&S--at least the show I became when Baitz' writing was compromised by the network and since his deaprture. It wasnts to have its cake and eat it too. Is it a Knots style all out primetime soap? Or is it a Herskovitz/Zwick (thirtysomething, Once and Again, MSCLife) style domestic drama? It seems to want to be both--especially now that Ken Olin (from thirtysomething) has become a bigger and bigger part of the behind the scenes. But in doing so it serves neither audience the way it could.

Edited January 23, 201015 yr by EricMontreal22

Rob Lowe is leaving??

Umm yes, that's what the past pages of posts have been about

I hope ROb Lowe leaving will mean less of these weird politics (the liberal republican wanting to be presient bla bla) which have REALLY bogged the show down. When Baitz was writing, cuz he's a political playwright, the politics (largely) served the show well, IMHO they stopped pretty much when he left.

Even then it was some sort of Candyland conservatism. He's so hot, and nice, and he only opposes gay rights legislation because he has to. Kevin was always made to look petulant for daring to question Kitty or Robert on gay issues.

So I take it you didn't purchase this DVD?:

Again, I do not like Sally Field.

And I've seen it. The Nun.

Even then it was some sort of Candyland conservatism. He's so hot, and nice, and he only opposes gay rights legislation because he has to. Kevin was always made to look petulant for daring to question Kitty or Robert on gay issues.

Right but from Baitz' open blog letter (maybe he was telling lies) that was cuz ABC insisted he show sides he didn't think he had to. At any rate, it got only worse.

LOL now I have visions of poor Sylph being tormented by Sally as the Flying Nunn hovering over his head

LOL now I have visions of poor Sylph being tormented by Sally as the Flying Nunn hovering over his head

LOL, no. Don't worry.

I mean, I think she plays best the warmness and vulnerability, but somehow here... It just doesn't work for me.

Rob Lowe leaving might lure me into watching again but he's not the biggest problem. The show's just fundamentally dull. Schmaltzy. There are never any long lasting complications or relationship shifts because the "zany Walkers" have to love each other and harp on about it all the damned time. Story setups which could provide some conflict and story movement last for three episodes before being forgotten and confrontations tend to consist of one scene - starting with an accusation and ending with cloying forgiveness.

Season 1 worked as an earnest, well planned family portrait. Season 2 Knots-ified it and it was really quite entertaining. Ever since, it's tried to be a hybrid of the two and stalls because of it.

Have Nora remarry. Send Holly insane. Kill Robert. Anything that provides movement and doesn't revolve around three episode guest stars.

Edited January 23, 201015 yr by JamesF

Wow, it took Rob Lowe to exit B&S for JamesF to re-appear!! I hope you keep posting.

I agree fully with what you said. Dullness & "zany" especially.

Edited January 23, 201015 yr by Sylph

Wow, it took Rob Lowe to exit B&S for JamesF to re-appear!! I hope you keep posting.

Ugh I know, who'd have thought. I'm frustrated because I think B&S has the most soapy potential now that DH is tired out and nobody behind the scenes seems to have a clue what they're doing.

I think the biggest mistakes they made in season two were Justin and Tommy sleeping with boring plot device Lena (that story trashed Tommy's character for good and also made Justin more difficult to care about), and the mess with Rebecca not being a Walker. All to put her with Justin, a pairing which isn't that great. They should have not had her as a Walker in the first place, especially since her actual relationship with the family was squandered from early on in a forced attempt to make her a husband-stealing vixen.

I also never understood why they cast the supposed big love of Kevin's life with an actor (Eric Winter) who had already filmed a major pilot elsewhere and was not likely to stick around, but since that mess got Kevin/Scotty back together, I can't complain.

Rob Lowe leaving might lure me into watching again but he's not the biggest problem. The show's just fundamentally dull. Schmaltzy. There are never any long lasting complications or relationship shifts because the "zany Walkers" have to love each other and harp on about it all the damned time. Story setups which could provide some conflict and story movement last for three episodes before being forgotten and confrontations tend to consist of one scene - starting with an accusation and ending with cloying forgiveness.

Season 1 worked as an earnest, well planned family portrait. Season 2 Knots-ified it and it was really quite entertaining. Ever since, it's tried to be a hybrid of the two and stalls because of it.

Have Nora remarry. Send Holly insane. Kill Robert. Anything that provides movement and doesn't revolve around three episode guest stars.

Well said! This exactly what I meant--not perfect, but I thought season 1 worked. I was worried when Baitz left the show would quit working, but you're right, even after he left, season 2 worked well on a soapier level, overall. But the mix of the two has and does not work anymore. There are so many "why did they bother with that" story points (like Sarah's love interest with that Dancing with the Stars french non-hunk this season, or even now the character of Ryan--I actually agreed with his whining when it was pointed out they had him move to town to get to know them, then got mad at him for flirting with Rebecca and then all but ignored him completely lol).

Edited January 24, 201015 yr by EricMontreal22

I think the biggest mistakes they made in season two were Justin and Tommy sleeping with boring plot device Lena (that story trashed Tommy's character for good and also made Justin more difficult to care about), and the mess with Rebecca not being a Walker. All to put her with Justin, a pairing which isn't that great. They should have not had her as a Walker in the first place, especially since her actual relationship with the family was squandered from early on in a forced attempt to make her a husband-stealing vixen.

I also never understood why they cast the supposed big love of Kevin's life with an actor (Eric Winter) who had already filmed a major pilot elsewhere and was not likely to stick around, but since that mess got Kevin/Scotty back together, I can't complain.

Eric Winters played the priest--brother of Rob's character, you're thinking of the closeted soap star from Sex and the City who came back for a pointless episode last year.

Winters' role buggedthe hell outof me too--we met ALL of Rob's family for the wedding, and remember EVERY SINGLE ONE of them were goofy, slightly funny looking, LOUD, DRUNKS (led by Gary Marshall of all people), yet they raised these two near perfect (to an annoyign degrees) brothers? Huh? Riiight...

Lena was virtually the main reason Baitz walked--she was foisted on him by ABC (that and being told to spend less time on theolder characters).

Ugh I know, who'd have thought. I'm frustrated because I think B&S has the most soapy potential now that DH is tired out and nobody behind the scenes seems to have a clue what they're doing.

You act like that's a new situation at DH

I wish the entire original B&S pilot would leak--I'm now curious to see how different the show would feel with a much colder actress, Betty Buckley (and I don'tmean cold in a necesarily bad way) as the matriarch. Of course so much else about the show was diff (Kevin was a diff actor and had an ex wife and children, etc etc) it might be unfair to actually compare.

He did play the minister; that was the character who was pushed as the big love of Kevin's life. In interviews during that first season, it was basically all but said that Kevin's messy relationships with Scotty and Chad were so he would grow and find his great love, which I think was supposed to be Jason McCallister, because the show thought it was cute to have Kevin with Robert's brother and because I think Baitz or whoever had the idea that Kevin could be fixed by this guy. There was so much over focus in the first season on how messed up Kevin was and how he would need this person to help him. I thought that was kind of funny, considering what became of the relationship (Jason never even bothering to send Kevin a message for months), but I guess that wasn't the original plan. I was very relieved when Jason left for good and they put Kevin and Scotty together again. They're such a believable couple, and I really loved their early episodes together (even moreso when they cast men post-Scotty who seemed to be terrified of same-sex contact).

Baitz was right about Lena. And he was right about wanting more time for the older characters -- it was disappointing how the gay story for Saul was so edited down (although at least it still happened).

I think every season has been a mixed bag, minus the third season, which was just dull.

I do wish they had better stories for Sarah, and that they would stop the baby stories. I know there are worse stories (like more cheating), but it's gotten to the point where I expect to hear that Saul and Holly are getting married so Saul can adopt a baby from Ethiopia.