Anooj

Bradley Bell on B&B: Brooke/Thorne/Macy triangle Little Eric’s paternity/custody drama between 1999-2003 (a great umbrella story that the lives of the 1998-2004 cast of young characters directly or indirectly revolved around - dropping it MASSIVELY damaged the show in 2003) Relatively speaking, the Ridge/Caroline/Rick/Maya quadrangle of 2014-2015 caused a very brief Indian summer for the show as well, but it would all come crashing down. Not an outright great plotline, but unexpectedly strong for this era of the show.

I remember liking Macy’s return at the time, but I’m honestly not sure how I’ll react to it this time around, once I finally get to those episodes. But regarding that, was her return actually planned to occur from the start? I do recall it was mentioned several pages back in this thread that the Portofino storyline was planned for 2001 (hence the monumentally misjudged insta-trashing of Throoke), but cancelled due to 9/11. But was some vague plan for her resurrection already in place in 2000? Kimberly’s exit scene (when her father comes to take her away) has a certain vibe to the effect that she’s still alive (when viewed in retrospect), and there was of course that unnamed woman (I think it was a passerby or the driver of the truck Macy crashes into) who tried to help Macy out of the car before it exploded, possibly thrown into the plot to explain why ”Macy’s” burned remains were found strewn around the place. Then again, it’s hard to believe Brad Bell actually sat down and thought: ”Oh, I guess Adam somehow sneaked into the scene and snatched Macy away from the car during the 10 seconds Thorne & Kimberly were looking away, somehow getting her legs free although Thorne couldn’t, and somehow the passerby woman didn’t move away so her remains get mistaken for Macy, and I’m gonna reveal this all later”.

Must be a trauma response to how terrible that plotline was. Not surprised you’ve forgotten it😅 I do wonder why both Jackie and Nick were let go at the same time. I wasn’t sad to see Nick go by that point, and Jackie wasn’t exactly a great character either, but writing out both of them doomed the Jackie M storyline, reverting us back to having just one fashion house. Like, couldn’t the show just send Nick off on a sea voyage (his involvement in fashion made no sense anyway), and bring in new characters to work with Jackie? Speaking of other bad storylines of that era, does anyone remember the Rick/Jackie/Owen love triangle, where the two men were disguised as statues and started chasing each other around the Jackie M office? It also got dropped fast. I actually think the show’s quality rebounded just slightly between 2013 to mid-2015. Part if it was that the departures of three classic characters (Ridge, Stephanie, Taylor) ”differentiated” the show enough from its past self, so it now felt more like ”that crappy Hope and Liam show” than a corpse being raped. Like, it wasn’t suddenly a good show again, but it could be better enjoyed on its own (very low) merits. The end of original incarnation of Bridge seemed to free Brooke from the 2003-2012 era schizophrenic writing, where the show inconsistently jumped between regarding her as the redeemed ”designated heroine” and a source of scandalous drama (look up my critique of 2003 a few posts back, where I explain it more eloquently). While one might argue Brooke having a sex scandal with her sister’s husband indicates a lack of character development or whatever, it was ACTUALLY EXCITING because the show stopped that 2003-12 era tendency to gaslight us into liking her, and the lack of having Ridge around made it feel like anything could happen (rather than them predictably reuniting). Also, given how Taylor’s character was ruined after her (ludicrous) resurrection, it was honestly not painful to see her go in 2013. The Liam/Hope stuff, while still not great, was also improved by adding Wyatt and Quinn into the mix. Liam fighting with another guy over Hope was much more believable and entertaining than portraying Liam as some prize to be fought over by Hope and Steffy. Quinn brought some of those Sheila vibes back, as did Aly to some extent, and the latter’s romance with Oliver was rather sweet. Deacon coming back was promising, even though he was ultimately wasted. Then, in late 2014, two things dramatically improved things. First, the sudden departure of Kim Matula as Hope forced the writers to severely scale back the extreme screentime allotted to Liam. The other was the Ridge/Caroline/Rick/Maya quadrangle, maybe the last good thing to come out of the show. The first half of 2015 was actually semi-decent. Then the show made some severe miscalculations in the latter half of 2015 (reset-buttoning the Rick vs Ridge businness storyline, Aly getting killed for a cheap shock, Maya’s niceness transplant after the trans revelation, the stupid rape-retconned-as-romance thing between Caroline and Thomas), and much of the momentum got wiped out.

Tough to rank precisely, but off the top of my head: - The initial 2011-2012 round of the Hope/Liam/Steffy triangle (September 2011 to September 2012 is easily the worst season of the show I’ve seen all the way through, with nothing redeeming about it that I can remember) - Ridge/Bridget (2003) - The Donna/Nick/Pam triangle (2011) - Extremely forced, with zero chemistry between either of the pairings. So bad it disappeared into a limbo after a month or two. - Nick tries to quit smoking (2011) - ZZZZZZZZZZZ, bad PSA with zero subtlety, and Nick/Aggie were a comatosely boring couple (I even had to google her name as I was writing this). - Amber trying to pass off her unborn baby as Liam’s (2010-2011) - A massive character regression for Amber to be turned back into the scheming person she was at the start of her original run. Liam was written as a pathetically passive doofus, Amber’s affair with Marcus lacked development, the whole ”will she have a white or black baby” thing was recycled from the Raymond storyline, and why was Amber mixing up with this new younger crowd anyway? Isn’t she like 50 by then, given that Mary/Erica was SORASed overnight by 15 years, and Hope was born around that time and is now an adult?

Since I’ve seen you express 94-98 as being worse than the surrounding periods, what are your top 5 (or even 10) storylines from said period? Regarding 95, I actually found Sheila’s exit storyline to be a bit of a dud. I did see bits and pieces of it as a kid (before regularly watching from the 1998 episodes onwards), and certain received consensus had created almost mythological expectations about it, but it largely failed to click. The fatal flaw is how the Eric/Sheila relationship storyline was sidelined in favor of the James kidnapping thing. Since the storyline was up to then about Sheila keeping her past secret from Eric, it felt anticlimactic to not have her past revealed in the context of that marriage, with epic confrontation scenes between the two and the like. Instead, Eric breaks up with her over strong suspicion that she’s hiding just something, and Sheila gets moved into this new storyline where it all comes out. One wonders if it might have worked better if the story had her kidnap Eric instead, upon her realizing she can’t prevent him from leaving. Might have had interesting effects on the businness storyline too. I did think some individual moments were strong, like the goodbye party episodes where she held the family at gunpoint, but some other stuff was really weak (why does Eric insist Lauren should tell James about Sheila’s past but not him, and why are the police too dumb to figure out Mike’s hiding Sheila?) The Anthony storyline was much better, other than Thorne’s family frequently forgetting he’s imprisoned, and certain dumb moments like the jailbreak. Anthony’s a fun diabolical villain. Taylor’s return story even became interesting once her identity was revealed to the other characters, and the trial was held to determine who Ridge’s married to (less said about the Morocco crap in 1994, which was AWFUL)

I’ve been binging on the fall 1995 episodes over the past few days in the vault. Enjoying it surprisingly much, considering how many here have called the second half of 95 bad or boring. Certainly better than almost any of 1994. Not a fan of whatever is developing between Taylor and Eric (why can’t the thing with James and Taylor lead anywhere instead?), but the Maggie/Dylan/Jessica triangle is actually kind of compelling, lack of follow-through aside (I understand it isn’t revisited after the post-diabetes breakup?). Jessica is still as boring as always, but Dylan & Maggie have amazing chemistry. I liked the scenes where Stephanie chewed them out after finding out about their affair. Nice to see Mike Guthrie back too. Very little of the above is truly amazing, but I absolutely LOVE the storyline about Rick’s anger towards Ridge, his demands for Brooke to be reunited with Eric, and the rivalry with CJ. I especially liked the scene in the latest episode I watched, where he marches into Connor’s office and asks for legal advice on how to move in with his dad😅

I think the very highest peaks are: - mid-1988 thru entire 1989 - The 1st half of 1992 - Most of 1993 - Mid-1999 thru mid-2001 - Most of 2002 (maybe - it sure was explosively entertaining, even if some things about the writing are questionable in retrospect) But I’d probably consider 87-93 and 99-02 to be overall very strong. My favorite calendar year would be a tie between 1989 and 2000, with 1993 possibly as a third alternative, but if we go by seasons, the Sept. ’99 to Sept. ’00 season could well be the best. Though I should mention I’m not familiar with every single bit of 95-98, as my first memory of intermittently watching the show (as a kid under 10) involved the 1995 episodes with Sheila kidnapping James, and Ridge being blinded by the lab explosion (my big brother - who was the regular watcher of the show in my family at the time - explained it to me as a microwave explosion that plastered ketchup on his face 😅). I’d catch various other bits every now and then (e.g. I have some vague memories of the Ridge/Brooke/Grant triangle), but started regularly watching around the time of Sheila’s 1998 exit storyline. I quit in 2017. With the newly uploaded old episodes (and previously the Amy Silence channel for 88-89, years I’ve thus seen twice), I’ve been able to watch 87-95 all the way through, finishing it like a month ago. I’ve not jumped over to watching the ’96 or ’99 episodes out of a desire to watch everything in order (but since episodes 2120+ don’t seem to be forthcoming, I feel like I might change my mind), but I’ve nonetheless skimmed through parts of 99-02 out of nostalgia, and indeed made the comment Videnbas refers to above.

So many things went wrong during 2003-2004: 1. Ridge and Bridget - does this really need an explanation? 2. The above romance also made Bell drop the much more promising Mark/Bridget/CJ love triangle before it even got started. That story also gave Clarke something to do in the show for a change, but when Bell had the bright idea to pursue Ridget, Mark suddenly got dropped, and CJ and Clarke backburnered. 3. Amber gets a lost twin sister! After briefly teasing us with a romance between her and Deacon, she disappears and is never heard of again. 4. Macy gets a welcome resurrection, but then proceeds to speed through 2 years worth of storylines in less than a year, only to get killed off for the second time. This coincided with CJ also getting dropped and the show shifting focus to the new Marones, all of which meant we’d see less and less of the Spectras from this point on. Spectra Fashions closing down in 2005 is obviously a further jump-the-shark. 5. The Little Eric custody plotline got dropped, perhaps the most disastrous creative misstep EVER on this show. The paternity/custody plot was THE major umbrella storyline that glued, directly or indirectly, the whole 1998-2003 cast of younger characters together. He may have been the most important character of this era, but nowadays we never hear of him. Said story seemed to be entering into an interesting new phase with the Deacon/Macy romance, but when the latter died, the kid suddenly dropped off the face of the earth, and Amber and Rick were thrown into crap romances with Oscar Marone (uninteresting) and the 16-year old Caitlin (inappropriate - though thankfully the lolita storyline with Eric got cancelled!). Things were not helped by Jennifer Finnigan’s Bridget leaving around the same time, but in any case the whole excellent cast of young characters circa early 00s got washed out from the show in a very short time. It was not until the Hope/Liam/Steffy crowd was fully assembled in 2010 that the show received another stable core group of young characters, but by that time the writing was too bad for it to matter (and they had nothing like the Little Eric storyline to hold the writing together). 6. Brooke losing her position as Forrester CEO, casting the character adrift in terms of her professional side. The show did briefly try to put her in charge of Spectra, which Ridge renamed as Logan Designs, but this soon got dropped, and who the hell even knows what Brooke’s job description has been after that? 7. The Ridge paternity retcon ended up being completely pointless, since Ridge simply returned to Forrester after Logan Designs failed (yay for the reset button!), and Eric learning about it ended up being a mere speedbump in his relationship to Stephanie. Ridge’s blood connection to Nick also failed to matter in the long run, as I don’t think the characters would even interact after 2007 or so. Joseph Mascolo was incredibly wasted between 2005-2006. 8. Since Ridge is sort of the romantic leading man of the show, the triple-whammy of killing off his wife AND giving him an identity crisis over his parentage AND putting him in an off-putting incest romance, all of these simultaneously, caused the show’s tone to drift into somewhat darker territory, perhaps too much. Macy’s 2nd death didn’t help matters. This development culminated in the rather mean-spirited 2006, after which, around 2008, Bell would start to lighten the tone again. The problem is that he overcorrected, and since 2010 the show has had that comedic jokey tone, previously applied ONLY to the Spectra crowd, present across the whole show (I noticed the shift when Brooke and Taylor had that catfight in the pool after FC had been retaken from Bill, with the music emphasizing comedy rather than depicting it as earnest drama; that over-the-top-drama-played-straight type of camp is what made 1999-2002 work so well, whereas now things felt too meta or self-aware) 9. The show replacing Tridge with Bridge as the designated supercouple. Now, Bridge most certainly had their moments as a pairing in the 80s and 90s, and the screen chemistry of RM and KKL has always been fantastic. Yet, Breacon and Ridget ruined these characters so terribly that the pair became inherently unrootable as the supposed emotional center of the show, and the biggest failure is perhaps the schizophrenic manner by which Bell wrote Brooke from this point on, as if one part of him was seeking to redeem her from Breacon, while also taking the easy way out by throwing her in more sex scandal storylines since that’s always so entertaining. As a result, a lot of 2003-2012, certainly since 2006, feels like the show is gaslighting us into liking Brooke, which would culminate in Taylor’s character assassination after her return, Stephanie increasingly being written as a Sheila-like opponent to Brooke (rather than the Cassandra archetype she was originally written as), and eventually bizzare compromise stories (Berryboink & Necklacegate) where we’d get the drama of a Brooke sex scandal while ALSO absolving her as a misunderstood victim. Ridge, in turn, would also get worse and worse with his waffling (2005, 2009, 2011), not to mention the stupid sleeping pill rape storyline (2006), none of which endeared the pairing for me. I hated the 2003/2006-2012 era Bridge so much that I felt dropping them in 2012 (when RM left) actually gave the show a brief quality bump (a few other things also helped, but the regained quality - none of it a match on 87-02 though - would crash again in late 2015). While many of the following years are certainly worse, no year other than 2003 made as many terrible creative decisions.