Vee

I'd have to go back and check but it's one of the first 1980/1981 eps posted recently, near the end. I remember someone claiming Robin and JC didn't interact much at OLTL but it seems that's not true, because I've seen any number of eps with Pat and Dorian clashing or complaining about each other in the shared workplace over the years, especially lately. Amusingly, Dorian's scheme in those eps to supplant Pat as host of her show on WVLE ultimately seems to have come to fruition; by the mid-80s, Dorian is hosting the show herself.

Christine's hair has mesmerized and terrified me since those old Eterna stills. I'll comment on it more when I get there, I'm sure. I just wanted to say though that the entire social set of the Ina Hopkins crew - Karen, Ed, Marcello, Katrina, etc. as well as Marco, Edwina, Brad (when did he rape Karen?), et al - is just fascinating stuff for 1980-81, and in some ways ahead of its time. It's an idiosyncratic, sort of alternative social circle almost more tonally consistent with today's post-crash economic era. It's bracing that they let so many of these characters and their entire milieu be so integral in that period. And it's true what people say about the writing for Karen and Marco, it's next level, especially together. I think it was Jozie Emmerich who talked about them and this period in the OLTL oral history and went to the show's writers asking how they came up with their dialogue. She was told 'they're writing themselves.'

I do care, but I'll care more when he's behind bars or flips.

Yeah, I'm going to be heading into the '88 stuff soon after watching a lot of '87 (alongside 1980-71). It's a wild shift.

There was some great stuff for Jacob talking about the dead family with Angie during the Murders (I will capitalize the Loving Murders to my dying day). I think the show did a decent job fleshing out Danny in the latter half of the Murders with the well thing (which seems like pure Linda Gottlieb to me from concept to production values - supposedly she was working on the show at this time, according to Lauren-Marie Taylor) and discussing his family, but it never went far enough to sell a pairing with Ally and clearly The City failed to pick up the ball properly. I think it could've been done in time with proper care. I'm pretty sure Special Agent Iva is from the same magic swamp agency as Irene Manning.

"TOLN" was always a grift. Everything would change on a dime about the supposed 'network,' its PR releases and often weird videos, its big moves, etc. and their public conduct was often really unprofessional and volatile. The entire venture was clearly the bluff/brainchild of some coked-up venture capitalists from the start. I was less surprised that it fell apart and far more surprised that the shows happened at all. That being said, against all odds the shows themselves were IMO very good to excellent despite the shitshow BTS. It took a mix of veteran creatives and people outside the daytime bubble - however crazy they were - to shake up the medium. I just wish better hands had steered the larger project. I maintain that AMC 2.0 was the best soap of the 2010s.

Loving 1995: Pre-Murders! I had no idea that Casey died this close to the Murders - I thought he bought it early in the year. Nor did I have any idea Jacob's backstory was linked to Charles or this drug ring. @DRW50will be pleased to finally get to see Lisa Brown as the villainous federal agent who... drugs and brainwashes Charles, apparently?

Get help! 😘

The most that's been said is no one got paid at all, lol. I believe Erika Slezak said that flat-out, among others. I've heard a lot of cast and crew (including Horgan and the other revolving door HWs) being surprisingly very positive about the shows - aside from Debbi Morgan, who has every right to be deeply hurt - but I think that positivity reflects more on the productions themselves than the larger venture. I was always fairly aware that the PP head honchos were shady characters with pretty infamous records; it stunned me that they managed to mount the shows at all. They couldn't even adhere to the terms of the legal barriers re: crossover characters which they sued ABC over - Natalie on OLTL mentioned Sam on GH by name on the show, which was verboten yet they were suing the network! Nonetheless, the shows largely worked for me. It's so much else higher-up that apparently didn't.

I'm pretty sure it was Felicia Minei Behr and/or MADD who hired Susan Batten from ABC, not the HW.

Yeah, Debbi was who I was thinking of too. But I don't think any of the talent would begrudge the creatives at the shows or the EPs who worked hard, like Ginger Smith and Jennifer Pepperman. I think the only companies likely to do these ventures are the original networks and their parent companies. But as of now they seem to have no interest in advancing the genre.

It's important to distinguish between the AMC/OLTL productions themselves and the higher-ups, IMO. I think the actual creatives running the shows did very well in an impossible crunch and the shows looked pretty amazing and felt cutting-edge for soaps. I think the upper management of PP above the shows were fraudsters.

I will continue to think the PP model is the future of the medium, which is probably why it has no future as of now; thus far the networks have rejected it, with the exception of the Beyond Salem experiment which was far from perfect.

There's a very specific allegation about why there were no kissing scenes for L&L in that period dating back to a book published in 2002 by noted critic Martha Nochimson, which I think is probably unfortunately true and I think all the parties involved regret it today. One of the key sources for the book was, allegedly, Mulcahey.

I saw some of those Jones episodes of OLTL on YT. How long did she play Viki, how long was the maternity leave?

It's very deliberate. I think Emily even mentions Trump, or someone does.

Frank cares about dollars and cents and keeping the lights on, and his favorites, and not much else IMO. I've seen him bring back people he had vocal beef with at OLTL and GH many times (on the other person's end - Frank never speaks on that stuff in public). It was a financial and ratings calculation to bring Steve back, so I always knew it would happen eventually. He might even bring William deVry back if it became necessary, and FV was trying to dump him for literal years. FV thought he could make Burton bend the knee and continue on a recurring basis in 2012, and it didn't happen. So he waited til Y&R cut him loose and he was open to making a deal because IMO to Frank, with rare exception, all that matters is the bottom line. Bringing back Steve Burton meant a ratings bump. Same principle: If the gay storyline on OLTL costs them conservative viewers in 2010, he wipes that entire canvas out. If Ron wants to use less mob, they use less mob, until the audience or the network complains, then the mob comes back with a vengeance in 2013 and continues to this day. He was the same way with Dena Higley at OLTL - dispassionate. We know today, many years later, that he hated working with her but did he ever say a word about it in the press or stop promoting her product and start admitting error? Not once. And if he beefed with as big a star as Steve Burton, but it was years ago and he can make a dollar now, will he have him back? Absolutely. Frank is generally ice cold about this stuff. His only visible weak point, in terms of composure, not taste because his taste is a mess period (IMO) is the OLTL stars - all that cool goes out the window for Howarth #3 or Easton #4. If he could keep Burton IMO he would, and I am sure Steve will unfortunately be back. (There are exceptions, of course - Vanessa Marcil and Jonathan Jackson. Allegedly, neither have been asked back despite being willing, and that IMO is because Frank doesn't want big enough stars there to outshine his preferred frontburner stars who have more pull than him. Steve had to come back after Y&R. So I think we can also say that FV's barometer for not letting anything personal get in the way of the bottom line has changed since being at GH.)

He wouldn't be the first hypocrite.

They don't want to. ABC and GH are just marking time.

That's what's interesting to me. The gaps in the current playlists online have Margo discovering she is pregnant early in the Kim Hughes trial, then (for the 20th time!) walking in on Barbara talking to Tom. I was ready to roll my eyes again but then it skips to around June 9th and Tom and Margo seem to be dating/rebuilding and happy. So clearly something went down or the pregnancy was the inciting incident for Margo. I was wondering that as well. Larry Pine is a great, versatile actor of stage and screen who's been in a zillion things but woo he is sleazy here and clearly loving it. There's also Steve and Iva to consider.

That is my suspicion atm. But I think/hope ABC and Disney, the parent company, have a tipping point with Burton GH doesn't.

I'm legit beginning to think they're hoping to keep a lid on it til his last airdate bc they're so cowed by their conservative audience and diehard S&C fans. As I said before, soaps should try to hide exits for other, better reasons but here it just seems like cowardice. Meanwhile, Steve is still doing IG messages in front of the GH zoom background lol

Those are both huge red flags, but especially the Stacey scene. You can almost see Gwyn make the decision in her head, and then she holds up the key trigger for her murderous rampages. They really did plan the story so well from the start. I wonder when exactly Christine Tudor was told - I know she said she was before others, but IIRC it may not have been immediately but after the first couple of deaths.