DramatistDreamer

Reading about all this equivocation as to whether a hate crime was committed, based solely on the perpetrator's statements reminds me of a documentary that I saw years ago on the killing of Vincent Chin. His attackers also claimed that race was not their motive. It floors me that in a country that purports to be a multi-ethnic society, people still fail to understand the nature of intersectionality and that humans can hold more than one idea in their head. Shocking.

Short of a major overhaul, this show is likely done. The Talk was supposed to be a cheapie light-hearted crowd pleaser and none of this is true, at present. I have said continually that racism is expensive, it comes at a hefty price. Osbourne is no Walter Cronkite and despite her desire to be referred to as "Mrs. O" (in some pathetic bid for respectability, imo) she's certainly no Oprah. It is not, in fact, "cheaper to keep her", as the song says.

The 'mishandling' seemed intentional to me.

Florida gonna Florida, I guess.

Part of Y&R's problem in the last 12 years is that too often they have written for the actor and not the character as they're supposed to do. It's why the stories have become so awful.

Good points. It just goes to show even more how much the story was written simply as a shocking, yet convenient way to send a character off the canvas, nothing more.

This was the way I saw it too. It was as if she were asserting her new identity (people really do this IRL, think of Madonna or Andre Leon Tally), that she was no longer the same woman who did manicures for rich ladies...she was now the rich lady and she would never let anyone (including herself) forget this. It's like a really meta actor who is always in character.

Teen Vogue should probably offer Welteroth more money to go back (even if for the interim until a suitable permanent replacement can be found and VETTED) and right the ship.

Let's see what happens with the Senate.

😂 This!

A guess on my part but perhaps the production companies behind AMC and OLTL cared more than P&G did at that point. By the early aughts P&G seemed past the point of caring. The sad thing about filming every other interior as if it were happening at the Lakeview is that you know it could have still been worse-- it could've been shot at The Stratford Arms. Remember that place? Lucinda owned it and it was rumored to be a real dump!

That sounds like a great story. It's a story that I would not only want to watch as a viewer, but as a writer, one that I'd like to write if I were writing a soap. This is a really compelling discussion you are all having in this thread right now. I've been missing out, lol. @FrenchBug82 made some very good points as well. Funny enough, I could see that conversation, argument really, happening between Dru and Lily.

Hasn't this show been kind of a smoldering dumpster fire since pretty much the beginning? I guess Ms. Welteroth is not playing around! Teen Vogue, speaking of smoldering dumpster fires, could probably use her back at the helm!

Fiona Hutchison actually spent part of her formative years living in Jamaica and when I listened to her during her time on GL, I can actually hear it in her British-y speech patterns in the formation of certain words.

Julianne Moore thought she was bad but I thought she did a fairly convincing British accent as Sabrina Fullerton Hughes. When I heard that her mother was from Scotland, my only surprise was that the show didn't make Sabrina Scottish as well, especially since most of the characters who were not American during that period of the show were from Scotland.

Elaine Welteroth made her career as being a pretty well-respected journalist. She became better known for her work as the editor-in-chief at Teen Vogue (only the 2nd Black person to hold the position at Conde Nasty), which did some ground breaking articles (certainly better quality than grown up Vogue) and had developed into a well oiled social media machine, churning out insightful and eye grabbing tweets (they have since dropped down from prominence since then, imo). I admit, the announcement of Welteroth being a panelist on The Talk raised eyebrows (namely mine) but I guess she's got bills to pay like everyone else.

The takes from the media on this tragedy are already abhorrent. It was a hate crime.

HR business??! Yikes 😬 Some of the worst storylines on soaps have been written for the sake of a temporary or extended exit. Sadly, maternity leaves have produced some of the egregious. On a medium that ostensibly had a history of catering to women.

Years ago, when the scenes originally aired, I remember thinking that Paul couldn't come back from this, in my eyes. In a way, he never fully did, at least when it came to a pairing with Christine. Paired with anybody else, I could mostly forget but I found them to be an unsavory coupling when they were reunited. Maybe I would need to watch the storyline all over again because much of the motivations for why things happened made no sense to me. Why did Christine decide to date Michael? I know the motivation where the writers were concerned but there is no logic behind why Christine would actually see Michael romantically. Paul was known for sometimes having a temper (the way he would bellow at Lauren, in the wake of her latest scheme backfiring) but having his anger cross into physical and sexual violence seemed beyond the realm of what had become acceptable of that character. Why wouldn't he just tell for Christine to get therapy and walk out, similar to what he'd do with Lauren? Then, somehow we were supposed to accept that Paul came back to himself because...he cried afterwards? Perhaps if they had Michael in that role, it would've been more logical, but that would've been it for the character of Michael Baldwin and like everyone has been saying, CLB had attained popularity on the show by then and when a character, particularly a male character, attains popularity, soaps are more inclined to write to reform them as quickly as they can, even if that means having the town heroine date them, though it may go against everything in both characters' history. With the benefit of hindsight, I think that storyline showed early on that writers struggled with how to write compelling stories for Paul and Christine as a couple, at least, a storyline that didn't involve a criminal case.

Hey, I liked Josie Davis in the role! I think the character' motivations were a bit more nuanced than the full on vixen that she would become with Gareis (although I enjoyed Gareis in the role). It's just that Grace's motivations were about ascension into what she saw as a fuller, bigger life, rather than snagging Nick and I appreciated that complexity. I wish that, rather than chasing Nick had been more of an emphasis when Gareis was in the role.

Don't think I've seen those Paul and Christine scenes since they aired. Boy, did Paul come off as violent and coarse in those scenes!

Folks didn't want to hear what I was trying to say. CBS is looking out the front door and Sharon's racist nonsense just may have given them the opening they didn't even know they had. If there is a way to cleanly cancel the show with a decent replacement and without much downside, they'll do it. The show was lucky to have survived as long as it did, it's had bad karma since the beginning. Honestly, the show is not even worth fighting for but it is CBS. CBS is the name and toxic behavior is the game.

Here's where P&G the corporation was definitely out of their depth compared to a traditional film or television production company-- negotiating relationships. In the previous decades, P&G seemed to have a few personnel that knew how to do these things (I can remember when Cartier, Harry Winston, Bob Mackie and Brooks Brothers--a company that has also seen better days nowadays-- all featured heavily onscreen in the 1980s) but maybe those people all left the soap industry or passed away, leaving profit-hungry bean counters in their wake. I don't think that P&G ever functioned the way an arts production company would function in their decision-making process. Everything was usually about profit over art, which makes me believe that P&G projected when they wanted to end their two remaining soaps about 10 years ahead, as corporations are won't to do with projections. Arts production companies can barely plan for the year ahead. I have worked at at least 2 arts production companies, I should know, lol.

I am not buying Goutman's alleged prowess as a director either. A director usually has to work well with actors (although some directors are known to be stand-offish and remote with actors) or at least make them feel respected. Goutman was never known to be one of those people, by most accounts. I am sort of in between where @prefab and @Vee mindsets. He was likely there to keep ATWT functioning on the shoestring budget P&G prescribed because they knew the end run was in sight and just wasn't about to spend any more money, even if that meant making the show look appealing. They no longer cared. *Please pardon the grammatical errors--it's been a long day.*

I have dropped and picked back up soaps ( before dropping again) intermittently throughout the years but the most recent attempts had to do with B&B and Y&R. The last time I tried to resume viewing of B&B was likely when the show brought back the Avants, a half-hearted attempt by the show and me, as a viewer. It was a short-lived stay for both. Y&R, I'll occasionally tune in, as I briefly did during the memorial for Neil. I also tuned in for a couple episodes to see what the Amanda character would be like. Also, to see Devon deliver a virtually socially distanced punch to Nate, but I don't expect much and I never planned on staying as a viewer. That time passed by a long time ago.