DramatistDreamer

But...but, Tomei really is from Brooklyn, lol. I'm sure she played it up for comedic effect though.

Following this discussion made me think about just how much is the function of the writing and how much is tied to the actor's ability. First off, I'd say that PB benefited from at least a few years more of better writing overall than AH. Then again, I just can't see TL putting up with a storyline like Jack/Marco-- TL likely would have walked away from the show first. Aside from that, TL had a a charisma that allowed him to play Jack as having an easy, breezy charm, so much so that he was endearing despite being a cad at times. Putting aside whatever she is doing or not doing at B&B, HT had the ability to portray Victoria as steely, yet vulnerable. Back then I took it for granted that all actors had this ability, future soap actors would prove me wrong on that one. I think an aspect that both actors had in common (and I guess good actors in general) is the ability to convincingly show different emotions, especially contradictory emotions at once. I get the sense that either the actress or the director, showrunner, etc. seems to prefer that Victoria be played one way at a time, and it usually involves being fragile. And it had been that way seemingly since the show brought Victoria back to GC as some boho-incarnate. Jack has also grown increasingly fragile, in a way, seemingly almost never with emotions in check, a ready tear waiting to spill out of the eyes. Again, I have difficulty picturing TL's Jack being Phyllis's 2nd or third choice of romantic partner. His Jack wouldn't even have waited for Phyllis to get the words, he would've immediately started pursuing someone else.

True. I am relieved that TPTB never dumbed down the relationship the way they eventually did to Margo and Jessica. I guess this was partly a function of the lack of interest in writing storylines for the elder set, particularly Lisa, which, otoh, is sad too. It was interesting to see that relationship deteriorate, even before Barbara's deception was revealed, on account of Barbara's growing bond with Lucinda, who Lisa could not stand. The friendship weathered that period of turbulence. I do think that Lisa was an incredibly loyal character, when you think of how protective she was with her stepchildren, as well as Tom. She was also the least judgemental of any of the Oakdale residents of her generation, when you think about how helpful she was to Julie and Carly, even when Emily was a pariah after fleeing town with James, Lisa didn't object to her working at Fashions.

Oh the irony of all those soap bloggers and soap-themed magazines not being able to cover that soap-adjacent news item that is right in front of their faces, even as the industry struggles for relevance!

A few have already been posted, so I won't repeat them but one that I haven't seen is Lisa & Kim, ATWT Quite a complex relationship (considering the fact that both characters married the same man, with one still married to said man) that came off as being so easy and organic, which I credit the writing and the ability of the actresses. EDIT: I see @Soaplovers posted them up thread. And @P.J. Thought I'd give an explanation why for those who may not be familiar with the characters.

These f*ckers, lol.

Reading about all this equivocation as to whether a hate crime was committed, based solely on the perpetrator's statements reminds me of a documentary that I saw years ago on the killing of Vincent Chin. His attackers also claimed that race was not their motive. It floors me that in a country that purports to be a multi-ethnic society, people still fail to understand the nature of intersectionality and that humans can hold more than one idea in their head. Shocking.

Short of a major overhaul, this show is likely done. The Talk was supposed to be a cheapie light-hearted crowd pleaser and none of this is true, at present. I have said continually that racism is expensive, it comes at a hefty price. Osbourne is no Walter Cronkite and despite her desire to be referred to as "Mrs. O" (in some pathetic bid for respectability, imo) she's certainly no Oprah. It is not, in fact, "cheaper to keep her", as the song says.

The 'mishandling' seemed intentional to me.

Florida gonna Florida, I guess.

Part of Y&R's problem in the last 12 years is that too often they have written for the actor and not the character as they're supposed to do. It's why the stories have become so awful.

Good points. It just goes to show even more how much the story was written simply as a shocking, yet convenient way to send a character off the canvas, nothing more.

This was the way I saw it too. It was as if she were asserting her new identity (people really do this IRL, think of Madonna or Andre Leon Tally), that she was no longer the same woman who did manicures for rich ladies...she was now the rich lady and she would never let anyone (including herself) forget this. It's like a really meta actor who is always in character.

Teen Vogue should probably offer Welteroth more money to go back (even if for the interim until a suitable permanent replacement can be found and VETTED) and right the ship.

Let's see what happens with the Senate.

😂 This!

A guess on my part but perhaps the production companies behind AMC and OLTL cared more than P&G did at that point. By the early aughts P&G seemed past the point of caring. The sad thing about filming every other interior as if it were happening at the Lakeview is that you know it could have still been worse-- it could've been shot at The Stratford Arms. Remember that place? Lucinda owned it and it was rumored to be a real dump!

That sounds like a great story. It's a story that I would not only want to watch as a viewer, but as a writer, one that I'd like to write if I were writing a soap. This is a really compelling discussion you are all having in this thread right now. I've been missing out, lol. @FrenchBug82 made some very good points as well. Funny enough, I could see that conversation, argument really, happening between Dru and Lily.

Hasn't this show been kind of a smoldering dumpster fire since pretty much the beginning? I guess Ms. Welteroth is not playing around! Teen Vogue, speaking of smoldering dumpster fires, could probably use her back at the helm!

Fiona Hutchison actually spent part of her formative years living in Jamaica and when I listened to her during her time on GL, I can actually hear it in her British-y speech patterns in the formation of certain words.

Julianne Moore thought she was bad but I thought she did a fairly convincing British accent as Sabrina Fullerton Hughes. When I heard that her mother was from Scotland, my only surprise was that the show didn't make Sabrina Scottish as well, especially since most of the characters who were not American during that period of the show were from Scotland.

Elaine Welteroth made her career as being a pretty well-respected journalist. She became better known for her work as the editor-in-chief at Teen Vogue (only the 2nd Black person to hold the position at Conde Nasty), which did some ground breaking articles (certainly better quality than grown up Vogue) and had developed into a well oiled social media machine, churning out insightful and eye grabbing tweets (they have since dropped down from prominence since then, imo). I admit, the announcement of Welteroth being a panelist on The Talk raised eyebrows (namely mine) but I guess she's got bills to pay like everyone else.

The takes from the media on this tragedy are already abhorrent. It was a hate crime.

HR business??! Yikes 😬 Some of the worst storylines on soaps have been written for the sake of a temporary or extended exit. Sadly, maternity leaves have produced some of the egregious. On a medium that ostensibly had a history of catering to women.