zanereed

Carl,

I've tried again to watch the available 1985 clips on YT, and I just can't get through them. Considering where the show was just one year prior, it really illustrates how far it had fallen (in my opinion).

I also want to state that I'm not a Pam Long hater at all. In fact, I think she managed to jump-start the show again when it needed it the most. The only unfortunate thing was that many of the core characters were written out under her first tenure. If that hadn't happened, or not to the extent it happened, I think her first era might be my second favorite next to the Dobson era. I don't know if the Infinity storyline was hers to begin with, but that was just something that wasn't GL. At least, not the version of GL I was used to watching under the Dobsons.

For example, I think the few months that Pam Long wrote for the character of Hope Bauer was probably better than the 2 years that Marland wrote for her. Looking back at the episodes I have from 1980 to 1982, it seems like Elvera had to say "Oh, Alan" or something to that effect on a regular basis. If I devised a drinking game based on that, my liver would be completely shot in a few months. Hope seemed to become much more interesting under Long - then, all of a sudden Hope's written out! I was also one of the GL fans that went, "WTF?!!?" when Justin Marler was written out in September of 1983. I was looking forward to the next era of the Justin-Phillip-Alan triangle, since Phillip finally knew his true parentage after almost 6 years (August 1983). Then, all of a sudden Justin's written out! And on and on and on...

On another note, I should really try comparing 1985 to 1993-1994 and see which era is worse for me.

Carl,

I really tried to feel the heat, but by 1985 I was ice cold towards GL.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Someone might have posted this previously in the thread, but for anyone interested in reading SOD Synopses of GL from mid-1975 through late 1976 (the issue "months" don't match up with the actual story months), here you go:

http://fnaf.net/classicsod/?cat=20

Even for those who aren't familiar with earlier GL history, it's still an informative read. Ed, Holly, Roger, and Christina/Blake history are included, as is the death of Rick Bauer's mother, Leslie. It even includes the introduction of Philip Spaulding's natural birthparents, Justin Marler and Jackie Scott (Marler) months before Philip arrived with Alan and Elizabeth Spaulding.

Yes - the videos being posted on YT concerning Jennifer Richards imprisoned and Mike Bauer trying to get her another trial are from that DVD set (along with Ed and Rita marital problems, Amanda losing her baby, Elizabeth preparing to leave, Hope talking with Elizabeth about Alan, etc.).

I still miss it.

I'm glad we're getting some 1981 videos, although I wonder why there aren't any 1980.

DRW50,

What WLSV is putting up from 1981 is what was on one of the last GL DVD sets made by Soap Classics, which was "The Trial of Jennifer Richards" set which had 10 consecutive episodes from 1981 - now OOP/deleted. The Christmas episodes from 1979 and 1980 which have also been posted by WLSV are - I suspect - episodes which were to part of a "Guiding Light" Christmas compilation which never came to pass. I don't know if they have access to any other material from GL. I might be wrong though, seeing as a lot of the 1979/1980 ATWT material currently up on YT is also being posted by them.

I think that was what Long was going for..and yes, I think Alex who was basically a "good," person, but hyper protective of her family and business (which the writers forgot once Marj took over and she became a screaming shrew) and not above doing things the "wrong," way to get good results, would have been great up against law and order Mike who also was hyper protective of his family. They tried that with Fletcher but he was too weak and annoying with Alex..(hated the actor.) Been interesting if they had married, and Alex and Mike were "two love" that just couldnt live together, they divorce and then Mike has to watch Roger swoop her up. I think that was what Long had planned with Alex knowing that Alan was alive, where he was, and hiding his criminal activities (she blackmailed him with them to leave town and hand over the company to her.) Then when Alan returns he blackmails her and finally tellls Mike what was up and he leaves her.

I would love to know what happened with this and the abrupt change in tone that fall of 84 or 85 when the show unraveled.

Great points, Mitch. I could see the remainder of 1984 and most of 1985 being the Mike/Alexandra/Lilian triangle, leading to Alan's return in 1986. Basically:

1. Mike and Alex break up over Alex's taping of Alan's confession (fall 1984).

2. Lillian, knowing Mike is now single and with encouragement from Beth, reapproaches Mike and tells him she wants to try dating again. Mike, still rebounding from Alex, welcomes the opportunity. Alex is jealous of their dating (fall/winter 1984).

3. Lujack is accused of killing Andy Ferris (spring 1985). Alex begs Mike to defend him. Although initially reluctant, Lillian agrees (due to Beth), and Mike defends Lujack. Alex and Mike grow closer again during this time, and Lillian notices, sharing her concerns/frustrations with Beth.

4. Lujack is imprisoned, but Mike doesn't give up. It would be Mike who would eventually discover that Floyd commited the murder of Andy. With Lujack's innocence secured, Mike realizes he has a decision to make - Alex or Lillian. This triangle also puts a strain on Lujack and Beth (early summer 1985).

5. Mike is informed by his Aunt Meta that Bert has passed away (late summer 1985). Mike and Ed both reel at the news. Mike tells Alex and Lillian that he can't choose between them right now, as his family comes first. Hope returns home for Bert's funeral.

6. Alex, trying to find a reason to see Mike in some way, overhears Hope tell Ross Marler that she needs to find employment soon - she has Alan-Michael enrolled in an expensive school in NYC. Alex offers Hope the opportunity to redesign the Spaulding mansion, hoping that Mike will make the occasional visit to see Hope. Hope agrees, thinking it will be theraputic to "purge" the memory of Alan from the mansion. Alex makes sure to keep Hope busy with redesigns, and Mike eventually does pay visits to the mansion. He and Alex slowly rekindle their friendship. Seeing what Alex is doing, Lillian also gets assertive, ending up attending the wedding of Mindy Lewis and Kurt Corday with Mike. At the reception, she informs Alex that she will fight for Mike. Hope starts to date Ross Marler (fall/winter 1985).

7. Lujack dies after the boat explosion. Alex is devastated and Mike comforts her during her time of mourning, spending the holidays with her. Lillian decides to back down from pursuing Mike (December 1985/January 1986).

8. Despite all their past and current obstacles, Mike and Alex become engaged (late January 1986). Alex doesn't want to wait long to marry Mike, and plans for a lavish June wedding. Although Mike doesn't really want all the hoopla, he eventually concedes, wanting 1986 to be a much happier year for he and Alex than 1985 was.

9. Alan is alive and well (May 1986).

10. Alan "crashes" the wedding of Mike and Alex (in place of the masked ball), setting up a chain of new events that would have lasted for another year or more (June 1986). Such as,

• Blackmailing Alex (as Mitch stated in his post) to give Alan back Spaulding Enterprises, or he will reveal to Mike that Alex knew Alan was alive all this time.
• Mike becoming obsessed with getting the incriminating blackmail tape from Alex, and wondering why Alex won't hand it over.
• Sabotaging Ross and Hope's relationship.
• Bringing Alan-Michael back to Springfield and fighting for full custody of him (no 1987 SORAs for AM).

This reads a little better than what actually happened in late 1984 and all of 1985, at least to me.

Mitch,

I agree completely. Mike was always the more stable one (at least once Stewart took over) versus Ed (especially when Mart Hulswit played Ed), although I admit I did like the Jennifer/Mike pairing. But, it's why I said a few posts above that Mike and Alexandra Spaulding would have worked. She would have been fiesty enough to push Mike, especially when it came to protecting her family. Being a Spaulding, it would always play into the fact that she is Alan Spaulding's sister, and I can see trust issues always getting in their way. I can always picture Chris Bernau's Alan being horrified by the idea of his enemy dating - or, worst of all marrying - his sister, much the way Mike was horrified when Hope married Alan.

Plus, in the right writer's hands, it could have been very interesting having Alan-Michael constantly in the push-pull between being a Bauer and Spaulding. The Powers That Be often seemed to forget his mother was a Bauer.

I think Elizabeth's last episode might have been on the "Trial of Jennifer Richards" DVD set from 2012. If not, she was gone shortly thereafter. I think Lainie goes in another month.

I still think Mike and Jennifer would have been a good pairing. I don't know why Marland drifted away from that.

I think the push and pull between Alex and Mike would have worked for awhile. I think I posted earlier in this very thread on how Mike and Alex could have worked throughout the rest of 1984 and into 1985. I think it would have been interesting to have a Mike/Alex/Lilian triangle, with Lujack and Beth being impacted in this. The culmination of this whole storyline would be a wedding planned in 1986, or just at the time that Alan could return to stop it in its tracks. Alan's reappearance could have reignited the Mike-Alan feud that had been going on since 1978.

I also heard that Pam Long was willing to write for Mike, Mitch. This is why I wonder if Stewart either didn't get along well with Beverlee McKinsey or if he wanted Mike to go in another direction romantically. It was odd that Mike never remarried after Leslie died in 1976.

I've been watching whatever clips are available from 1984 right now. Some I haven't seen for awhile. I'm still perplexed as to why Gail Kobe decided to fire Don Stewart and Marsha Clark. Yes, they were Bauers, but Stewart was the second longest-running character on the show. Does anyone know if he was difficult to deal with at this point, and Gail just finally said "enough"? Or, could Pam not write for the character at all? I still think they could have milked the Bauer-Spaulding feud for many more years if Mike was still on the canvas. I also think that Marsha as Hillary was fantastic, and I can't think of a good reason why they ever killed her off.

You are right, of course - Ed (after Peter Simon took over) did get more to do once the Maureen Reardon appeared on the scene. Oddly enough, I think Ed had the biggest storyline in years in 1985 (when Richard Van Vleet was in the role) during the whole Fletcher/Claire/Maureen/Ed storyline that resulted in the birth of Michelle.

That would make sense. I guess I could have bought Carrie Mowery as a Elizabeth recast versus Jackie (I think I mentioned that earlier in this thread).

After being in front burner storylines with the Dobsons, Marland had both Ed and Mike shifted to supporting players during much of his tenure there. It might have been around this time that P & G started putting the pressure on Marland to get rid of the Bauers altogether and focus on a much younger demographic.

Yes, they were both from December. I think what jumps out at me the most is how the 79 one tries to keep everyone together, whereas the 80 one is more comfortable using segmented groups. The attempt at a young, hip vibe in the 1980 episode, and the heavy focus on Morgan, is another noticeable difference.

I know she was apparently difficult but I love what Kristen Vigard brings to the role. She makes me feel sorry for Morgan, even in some horrible moments (like berating a pregnant woman), in a way I never could for Marland's other characters in this vein (Laura, Lily).

I do think that some years bled together, like Pam Long's Christmases in her second run, but for the most part the show just seems so different each year.

It certainly illustrates the differences between the Dobson era and Marland era. However, I do note how Marland did have a good chunk of the cast at the Bauer home at the very end of the 1980 Christmas episode. It's also noteworthy that this would be the last Christmas episode for Stefan Schnabel (Stephen Jackson) and Mart Hulswit (adult Ed Bauer #2), both of whom had very long tenures on GL. The other thing that sticks out is how miscast Carrie Mowery was as Jackie Marler compared to Cindy Pickett.

Does anyone know if Lezlie Dalton (Elizabeth Spaulding) wanted to leave the show, or if Marland simply wrote her out for storyline purposes? It seems to me there was still plenty of mileage in the Philip storyline.

I just noticed that Carl changed his name. NOOOOO Carl! Change it back!

I'm sure he will once Doctor Who's 50th Anniversary passes...?

Carl,

Also, regarding Ed Bauer and Robert Gentry/Mart Hulswit - there was a four-to-five month gap in 1969 between when Gentry left the role of Ed Bauer to when Hulswit took over.

saynotoursoap,

I agree 100% that Rodell was fantastic on ATWT as Joyce.

Carl,

Mike Bauer was played by a handful of actors in the 1950's and 1960's before Don Stewart took over the role in 1968. Pilar was Mike #4, lasting two years on GL (1963 - 1965), and then he reprised the role on "Another World" for one year. Basically, Mike Bauer was gone from Selby Flats/Springfield from 1965 to 1968, when Robert Pickering was cast in the role as Mike in early 1968. Pickering was Mike for about nine months when Stewart assumed the role until September of 1984.

Personally, Stewart always reminded me of Mannix/Mike Connor. I wonder if TPTB at that time cast Stewart based on that similarity?

saynotoursoap or anyone else who can answer:

Someone else asked a question to me on this after watching the 1973 episode on the Bauer DVD set, and I was too young then to remember - they were asking about the chemistry between Mike and Leslie. She seemed to recall that Don Stewart (Mike) had more chemistry with Barbara Rodell (Leslie III) versus Lynne Adams (Leslie I). Any thoughts?

It sounds like the Dobsons were using Justin to give their opinion of the show.

It certainly seems that way, doesn't it? I don't remember Justin being quite that arrogant back then. He might have started out that way, but it could have been that the Dobsons "tamed" him a bit after a while.

At first I was thinking that Justin was the Dobsons' first character that they brought to the canvas, but that's incorrect - I think their first characters were the Stapleton family. Saynotoursoap might be able to clarify this a bit better.

That makes me feel less pathetic for using all these. If you ever want to talk in any of those show threads I'd enjoy reading your views.

Anyway, didn't Christopher Walken fill in for his brother on GL? Or did he not? There seems to be a noticeable age difference.

Carl,

I was trying to find some evidence for you, but I haven't thus far. From different things that I read over the years, Christopher/Ron *did* fill in for Glenn on occasion (I guess despite that age difference).

Off topic - did you get the new version of "The Aztecs" on DVD (I noticed your new avatar )?

Indeed. Who has lost a lot of fine actors over the past two years, and Caroline was certainly one of them.

I only asked because I seem to watch the exact same shows as you do, based on the different avatars I've seen you use .

But, back to GL...

Carl, this is way off topic, but is your current avatar Caroline John?

Ah, the infamous "wing tips" they gave Ellen Demming to "age" Meta, even though Ellen was only in her early 30's at that point...

saynotoursoap,

Do you happen to know if the Dobsons had Amanda's real mother in mind when they introduced her?

Thank you for the clarification, Paul. Do you know if the Dobsons originally had someone in mind to be Amanda's mother (either an existing character or one they were to create)? I believe the name "Jane Marie Stafford" was never mentioned until after Marland took over (and Jennifer Richards was already introduced)?

Vee,

Carl is correct. What I cannot remember offhand was if Jennifer Richards (Amanda's natural mother) was created by the Dobsons and Marland carried on with incorporating her, or if she was one of Marland's creations independently. Jennifer first appeared in April of 1980 (when the show was under Marland), so I'm not clear on that part.