zanereed

^^^^^Ms. Garrett is marvelous in that episode. It pisses me off that she never gets the credit she deserves and never won an Emmy.

I agree wholeheartedly. There were a couple of years where I thought she deserved to win, hands down.

Thanks for posting those links to the November 1981 episodes, Carl. I was hoping that the YT user would eventually have some from late 1981 to post, especially with Alan running away from Springfield with Hope and Alan-Michael (and with Mike closing in on them).

I also wanted to mention how much I, too, am really enjoying seeing Anna Stuart as Vanessa!

No..it was Simon in the 2000s. Why didn't Gentry last?

LOL..I loved the Dreaming Death..but I was a kid at the time. Brandon not so much but I did like the Cabin Mystery up to a point and the doll and the "ghosts," were only seen by Annabelle and were more like flashbacks to the past. Ms. Piper was a more of a camp then the actual house and ghosts. Her ridiculous schemes and poison and tying Annabelle up over a hot stove..YIKES. Would have been more fun if snoopy Nola had been the one with the storyline and they could have just killed Quint at the end (I know the Qualos would've rioted but he had no where to go as a long term character...) and had Nola inherit tons of Spaulding stock to be a thorn in the side of Alex.

Sorry, Mitch - you are right, it was Simon, not Gentry.

I also agree about the DD storyline - Nola should have been the one who saw the "ghosts". That was more in character for her and less for Annabelle.

I never saw Quint as much of a long-term character, either. Nola versus Alexandra - now that would have been fun to watch.

So this story is basically the beginning of the demise of Maureen.

Corrent. This is one of the last GL "events" that I truly enjoyed watching, because it really jump-started some very interesting storylines (Ed/Lillian, Blake/Ross, etc.).

But I think when Ed came back under Taggert, he was in a place to be patriarch and he was written accordingly. He had been held captive but he was tougher (even threatening Carmen in a really good scene.if only Ed was around the whole time Carmen and he had a good push pull there.) and sadder and wiser, and more open in his quiet introspective way. Ed at this time had done it all and made a good sounding board. Its too bad that soaps were so loud and cartoony by then that the writers following had no idea how to use this quiet man and instead threw the town patriarch to loud obnoxious Buzz.

I remember that scene with Ed and Carmen - it was 1997 when Gentry was back in the role, correct? I could actually see Ed being a patriarch with Gentry in the role. Gentry gave Ed some "bite" and made it believable.

I'm also not criticizing Pam Long as a writer. A lot of characters came "alive" again under her pen (some of whom were long standing vets). However, things like the "Dreaming Death", Branding Spaulding's alive, etc., were tough to live down.

Paul,

Thanks for those summaries. After reading the final months of 1983, it did seem like Pam was hurrying through the current cast to get focused on the people she wanted to write for. So, out goes Bill Bauer, Justin, Hope, the Reardons, etc., for Billy, H.B., etc.

Did Pam create the Lake Elizabeth/Eli Simms storyline, or was that Carolyn Culliton, or even Brown/Palumbo?

Carl, it doesn't seem like TPTB knew JWS was quitting, either...

So citing the cast massacre of 1983/1984 where a majority of characters that helmed the show from the late 70s through that period were written off.. how would you have written for them to survive into the late 80s and beyond?

The three characters that stand out for me:

Justin Marler - Phillip finally finds out that Justin is his biological father versus Alan, yet leaves Springfield a few weeks later. There was so much more to be had with the Alan/Phillip/Justin angle.

Mike Bauer - I went into this awhile ago, but Mike's involvement with Alexandra (and possible marriage to her) could have kept the Bauer/Spaulding feud continually driving story for years to come (even during Chris Bernau's absence). The triangle with Alexandra/Mike/Lillian had barely begun, and would have likely had impacted Lujack and Beth.

Hope Bauer - I always wanted the show to try Hope and Ross together. Alan would always be interfering in Hope's life, of course, because of Alan-Michael. Plus, there was no love loss between Ross and Alan (and Ross was a Marler, which probably would have gotten under Alan's skin).

Before looking at Ed Bauer, I think it's good to start by looking at his father, Bill Bauer:

Bill Bauer was always portrayed as a weak, indecisive man, constantly hounded by Bert to be a success and to offer his family a better life, and he always seemed to make the wrong choices. He had affairs, he was an alcoholic, etc.

Robert Gentry originally played Ed Bauer as rather an arrogant, self-absorbed young man fresh from medical school. He resented his father, Bill, for being a womanizer and an alcoholic. Basically, Gentry's Ed tried hard to be nothing like Bill Bauer. He was particularly critical of Bill's affair with Maggie and critical of Bert for staying with Bill. Bert called him out on his selfishness, stating that Bill was a better man than Ed because Bill had compassion and sensitivity, unlike Ed. By the time Gentry left the role, Ed was exactly like Bill - a womanizer (cheating on Leslie) and an alcoholic.

Mart Hulswit's version was a bit more toned down. Ed was still slightly arrogant and self-absorbed, but a bit more mature. However, his romantic relationships were a mess and he was portrayed - as Carl rightly states - pushover. After he divorced Leslie, he went from Janet Mason to Holly to Rita - never being able to keep his personal life together. Although Ed tried to be tough against someone like Roger, he was no match for him.

Peter Simon portrayed Ed as even weaker than Hulswit's, although Ed did finally settle into a long term relationship with Maureen.

Richard Van Vleet was Chuck from All My Children, pretending to be Ed Bauer.

I thought Gentry returning to the role in 1997 had good potential, especially when it seemed like his version of Ed had some fire again.

Don't get me wrong, Mike Bauer had issues as well - he was a womanizer just as Ed was, but he was much more stoic and noble (just as Carl stated earlier). Mike was much more similar to Bert than to Bill. Paired with the right person, he certainly could have been the patriarchal figure throughout the show's run, just as Mike Karr had been on the Edge of Night.

I wouldn't have wanted Mo with Fletcher. For some reason, I just didn't like Mo and Fletcher together at that point. I suppose I'm with Mitch on this one, but Fletcher started to wear on me as a character - I never could figure out why they ever paired Holly with Fletcher! But back to Mo - I really wish Mike Bauer had been in Springfield as a source of comfort for Mo. Ed was always the weaker of the two brothers, and I could see Mo being drawn towards Mike and vice versa.

Yep, they had another shot with Rick and Abby as the core couple (and Bauers, too), but they blew it.

Instead of killing her, they should have had Maureen drive right into the arms of Roger! It would have had some interesting fallout.

It certainly would have driven story moving forward, having implications for Roger, Maureen, Ed, Holly, Lillian, etc.

However, I really did like the friendship between Roger and Maureen - Michael and Ellen had good chemistry, but I never saw it in a romantic fashion.

The show could've at least brought back Mike and Hope, maybe Rita Stapleton

I wonder though what would've happened if Maureen wasn't killed off

Apparently they wanted Lenore Kasdorf to return as Rita in 1989 along with Roger and Holly, but Lenore declined. I really wish she wouldn't have. Although I'm not sure how she and Peter Simon's Ed would have played off each other...

Mike and Hope were rumored to be returning in 1986, but that never materialized. I think Hope was not an option at all once they seriously SORAS'ed Alan-Michael and brought him back to Springfield in 1987.

Watched the 7/21 through 7/28 episodes on youtube. It seemed like the storylines were all pretty separate with very little interaction between the stories. Perhaps it was an odd week and Marland was still trying to tie up the Dobson stories. I can see why Maureen Garett opted to leave since Holly really wasn't doing anything and was islanded off on her own.

I did like Morgan.. she was quite fiesty! I think I like how Pam Long wrote Nola better then Marland did.

I like how Nola was written under Long, as well. The same holds true for Hope. In fact, Hope just started getting really interesting to me again when she was suddenly written off!

Carl, you're right. As much as I loved what Marland did with a lot of his writing, there still seems to be something missing during this era. "Rickety" is probably as good of a word as any to describe it.

I don't know if it was rickety because Marland and Potter didn't get along, or if there was something else missing. Someone mentioned further back that Marland needed someone like Pam Long during his tenure at GL. They are probably right.

I wish P&G hadn't switched Marland and the Dobsons when they did in 1979. I really think the Dobsons had really hit their stride in their 5th year at GL, and I don't think Marland was allowed enough time to really get going on ATWT when he was moved to GL.

As far as Katie and Mike...I think it could have worked if they addressed the age difference head on. Certainly Mike had issues with Hope and Alan, with one of those issues being their difference in age. Add to that Katie being Hillary's best friend, and Hillary feeling uncomfortable with her best friend dating her half brother. Subtle issues, but they could have driven story. But, GL already had a similar couple dealing with age differences in Kelly and Morgan, so who knows?

I would have also been up for a Mike and Holly pairing, had Maureen Garrett stayed on. Yes, it could have been brother versus brother conflict all over again just like with Leslie, but I think Holly would have given this a fresh spin. Either that, or perhaps a Mike and Rita pairing. I always thought Stewart and Kasdorf had some chemistry between the two of them.

Now that is a good question. I wonder how "young" Stewart was aiming for. Mike certainly had chemistry with Renee DuBois, but Marland killed her off towards the end of Roger's storyline (perhaps prematurely). Then Mike was paired with Jennifer, then I believe Trish. Certainly Trish would have been a good match? I wonder why that never panned out? Deborah May came back to GL in 1982 as Ivy Pierce/Brenda Lowry, but the chemistry didn't seem to be there between the Stewart and May as it had been in 1980. I can't remember who else they paired Mike with before the Alexandra/Lillian triangle started to develop in 1984.

After watching the 1981 episodes, I agree with you, Carl - a Mike and Vanessa pairing might have been very fun. Oddly enough, I enjoyed the interaction between Anna Stuart's Vanessa and Mike. I never saw why they paired Vanessa with Ed.

Mike and Katie...I wonder how that would have played out. I think Mike needed someone fun in order to keep his character interesting. I saw moments like that in his interactions with Jackie (Cindy Pickett's version only) and Alexandra. Would Katie have been considered too young?

Do you think Don Stewart objected to Jennifer/Mike? Or did they just drop their relationship to push the mother/daughter triangle with Mark (which I think was a bad idea)?

Someone asked me to put those episodes on Youtube. I guess I will learn how to do this someday.

(the trial episodes)

I know some of them are already on there through the WLS channel.

Someone posted earlier in this thread that they knew Geraldine Court and that she had told them that Stewart was less than happy with the Jennifer/Mike pairing, with Stewart wanting Mike involved with a younger woman.

I never knew that Mike and Elizabeth got such closure. I guess it explains why she never wanted to come back. She did it to herself, by giving everything up to protect Philip, but I do feel a little sorry for her. It's fine work from Don Stewart and Lizbeth Dalton.

I think they were trying to close out any lingering romantic entanglements between Mike and Elizabeth so that Mike was free to pursue Jennifer moving forward (and at the same time, bring closure to Renee). If I recall correctly, though, Mike and Elizabeth would still interact all the way through early 1981, when Elizabeth finally left Springfield (as can be seen in "The Trial of Jennifer Richards" DVD set).

...and you're right - who wouldn't look at Rita?!!?

Soap Central lists Helen Wagner but I dont think so

No, it definitely isn't. I'm not certain who was portraying Trudy at that time.

Here's one from waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. If this was already linked here, I apologize, but I think it might be one of the earliest existing episodes of the show, from July 10th, 1952. The second Meta (Joan Allison) is in it, along with Trudy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz2SrBAhzYM

Doing a search for the user who is posting these, there are quite a bit more from the past few months I haven't viewed yet. For instance, the beginning of the final days for Bill Bauer (August, 1983):

Wow. I haven't seen Diane's final episode since if first aired.

Watching this again, Sofia Landon is so good here. I wonder why they decided to kill her off? Did Landon want to leave, or did Marland think that Diane had run her course?

I agree, Carl - Landon and Bernau were fantastic here.

I admit, I'm really enjoying watching Anna Stuart as Vanessa.

So, is this the last 1981 episode the poster has? I hope not, as I really wanted to see the Tenerife storyline again, as Alan takes Hope and AM there with Mike following close behind. I think that is where Josh Lewis also makes his debut?

i believe this was the time [1986] when Elissa Leeds says she was contacted about reprising Hope but nothing came of it for whatever reason.

That would make sense. It's the only time I ever remember reading any mention of bringing Hope back. It would have been an interesting choice if they went in that direction. Leeds is 11 years younger than Elvera Roussel, and I can't recall how old Hope was supposed to be when Roussel was in the role - mid 20's or late 20's? I wonder how Leeds opposite Chris Bernau would have looked. Regardless, I would have rather seen Hope Bauer back than SORAS-ing Alan-Michael like they did the following year. In fact, I think that's the primary reason that they never brought Hope back again - with an aged Alan-Michael on the canvas, who could convincingly play Hope as both a mother of AM and someone who was supposed to be 20 years younger than Alan Spaulding?

Well, technically Peter Simon (born September 27, 1943) was only 3 years younger than Mart Hulswit (born May 24, 1940), but I think Mitch hit it on the head - Hulswit's look at that time probably didn't help his cause. Simon certainly looked younger than Hulswit IMHO when he started.

Yes, I had heard going back to the early 2000's (and also confirmed in this very thread) that Don Stewart was difficult to deal with, not learning his lines properly and wanting certain things for his character (such as dating younger women).

However, I've also read that Pam Long wanted to write for Mike, and had a long term story line for Mike that involved a love triangle between Alexandra and Lillian (which had already started in the summer of 1984). From what little information I've gathered, Stewart didn't want to go in this direction and Gail Kobe finally had enough and fired him.

I wonder...had Peter Simon stayed on as Ed going into 1985 (instead of recasting Ed with Richard Van Vleet) if TPTB would have considered recasting Mike, just as they did with Ed Bauer three years earlier?

I know that SOD mentioned in 1986 that both Mike and Hope were coming back, but that obviously never materialized. Had that happened, I would have expected new actors in each role.

The person uploading these said they only have one more for September (September 25 - Diane's last day) and then a few more from later 1981 and from 1982, but will hopefully get more 1981 episodes in January.

Great news! I hope they have some of the location shooting from late 1981 that involved Mike chasing after Alan when Alan fled to Tenerife after being the prime suspect in Diane and Joe's murders.

Carl,

By 1989, I was completely used to Simon in the role, and you are right - he was just fine versus Zaslow at that time. However, TPTB at GL really didn't keep Ed and Roger constantly in each other's radars, which was a shame. They had so much history together between their involvements with Holly, Christina/Blake, Rita, etc. It's a shame they really didn't keep that feud going much, especially when Roger and Maureen got along so well as friends.

Hulswit probably didn't look like "leading man material" for soaps by 1981 compared to when he got the role in 1969 (and certainly not next to his TV brother, Don Stewart), so I'm sure that was one of the factors that caused the role to be recast. The other thing I heard at one time was that it was Allen Potter who decided to let Hulswit go for apparently questioning the writing at that time. However, Hulswit stated in an interview some time in 1981 or 1982 that they let him go as part of a larger plan to remove the Bauers from the GL canvas.

Whether any of that was true or not, I've never been able to confirm it.

Yeah, I'm very glad to get to see this era too. I'd prefer to see the Dobsons material, as I think it is less dry and dated than Marland's work, it has more heart and feels less laborious (for instance, the repeated conversations about what a changed man Ross is always make me kind of roll my eyes), but I know most of that is gone, so this is good too. I'm glad to get to see more of the whole canvas buildup to the Diane and Joe murders, and as you said, some of the day-to-day of Kelly and Morgan. And more info on weird bits like Vanessa/Ed, and pairings I never knew about, like Mike/Trish. Plus I never knew they were still having Nola scheme to get Kelly at this point.

Who didn't Mike Bauer date at that point?

I know Stewart had been lobbying for Mike to be involved with a younger woman (which I believe is why his relationship with Jennifer was phased out after her trial), but I don't think his pairing with Trish lasted very long because by 1982, they brought back Deborah May in her second role on GL as Brenda Lowery/Ivy Pierce.