zanereed
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Posts posted by zanereed
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I was never a fan of the way Amanda was written during her time in Springfield during the 1990's, which is a shame because I did like Toby Poser as an actress. I wasn't a fan of de-aging Amanda (did Kathleen Cullen even get an inquiry if she'd like to return?), and then having Brandon be Amanda's father versus Alan after 16 years made zero sense. It was this storyline, along with MZ getting let go, which finally got me to stop watching in 1997 (although I briefly watched again when they brought back Ken Norris).
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It really did. Hillary still in alive when Roger returned could have been interesting....
An excellent point. Her past affair with Roger would have certainly made for good story.
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Thanks for posting that article, Carl. I loved Marsha on GL. I really wish Pam & Gail hadn't decided to kill Hillary off when they did. It seemed unnecessary, and didn't really push any story forward.
If anyone still hasn't checked out the "Guiding Plight" on YouTube, do so! Marsha herself posted the whole thing up on YT. It was a spoof on GL that involved the actual cast and crew, written and produced entirely by Marsha. It is hilarious, IMHO.
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They brought in Janet Zarish, later on AMC and OLTL as Lee Halpern Sanders/Janet Ketring/Carole Dennison, I'll bet if it were Chapman, they would have used her more...
I never like Barr that much, she was just too "ABC'ish," to me...but they did indeed consider her for a recast Annie Stewart right before that other ABC actress took over.
The Natalie return the Dobson's did was so stupid. She was married to some greek tycoon film producer and she came to town to shoot a movie in Oakdale. She was tied to the Andropolous' as Steve stole her husband's necklace or something (I am remembering a "Green Fire," thing but have no idea if that was it...) and that is how she found out that Jay had kicked the bucket. The part was miscast...(no offense to Zarich but she was not a soap vixen..) and she didn't interact with any of her old family besides bitchy barbs with Lisa, and that was that.
Correct. Natalie's return in 1981 was horrid. As Mitch states, she had zero interaction with Tom. I remember watching and thinking, "What's the point?" The same was true when the Dobsons brought in Gary Hudson as a recast of Rick Ryan. It was a nice idea, but never really went anywhere - plus, Hudson was also miscast as Rick (in my opinion).
Hudson was hot though! But yea he couldn't act and did he even have scenes with Bob or Kim? I remember a stilted scene with Barbara....(who you would think would have been thrilled to find her long lost brother...) and she mentions have you talked to "Bob Hughes," yet (I always think is so weird that charcters tack on last names, as if he wouldnt know which "Bob," she was talking to.) Hudsons acting talent wasnt as big as his chest though.
ATWT was just so weird back then, no one was connected so bringing back old characters was useless as the Dobs had three character groups (Ariel, John,Dee, James, Babs, Gunner) and(Steve and Betsy/Craig) and (Tom/Margo) and no one else got written for as those character rarely interacted with their own families.
Zarish to give her her due, knew how to trade bitchy remarks and keep up with Fulton so she would have worked as someone other then Natalie.
Yep, Hudson did have scenes with Bob. In fact, you can see one of them on one of the Soap Classics DVDs - I believe it was the James Stenbeck collection.
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Here's how I would have handled Michael Zaslow's illness and Roger, going back to 1997. If I'm the EP of GL and MZ comes to me and says he isn't sure what's wrong with him and needs to figure it out, I grant him that time off and I tell the writers that Roger needs to be written off the canvas for the foreseeable future - write his absence in as a mystery. Everyone loves a good mystery, right? YMMV, of course.
Basically, I think I'm stealing for your earlier idea in this thread. Meaning, Roger suddenly disappears from Springfield. Basically, Amanda asks Blake if she's heard from Roger. Days prior, Roger told Amanda he had business to take care of all of sudden, and he leaves. He doesn't tell Amanda where he's going, who he's meeting, why he's leaving, or when he'll be back. He just leaves (which could have all been done off camera). Blake says she hasn't talked to Roger in a while, either. They both begin to worry as the days pass. It's just like he vanished completely.
The next few weeks and months result a "Where's Roger?" mystery storyline, which would culminate in Amanda, Blake and possibly Holly investigating and finding some flight records which indicate that a small plane that supposedly Roger was on crashed in some remote location, killing all passengers - including Roger. Now, the mystery isn't solved as far as the "why" of Roger's disappearance. However, since Roger did not leave any trace of evidence other than the fact he was on the flight, Roger is once again declared dead. Amanda leaves Springfield (if they chose to write her out), and Blake and Holly get on with their lives...
...that is until (as he did with "One Life To Live") Zaslow could find a way to work in order to finally allow the writers to effectively write Roger out of GL, and use Zaslow's real life illness as the way to do it. You could educate the audience, have PGP in conjunction with Zaz's Angels to allow for donations to be made, etc (And screw the "wizend old man" comment). This would allow Zaslow and Garrett to share some final, heartfelt scenes together. They would have knocked it out of the park.
Basically, a few months (or whenever Zaslow could return, even briefly) after Roger is declared dead. Holly receives a cryptic phone call from Adam Thorpe, Roger's father (either a brief or long-term stay for Robert Milli as Adam) asking Holly to a private hospital wherever the writers chose - maybe it's in Oregon, where Adam was last known to reside. It could be anywhere. Holly gets a strange feeling in her gut about why Adam called, but she does it, no questions asked - leaving Fletcher to take care of Meg at a moment's notice (and Fletcher wondering what is going on).
Holly arrives at the hospital and meets Adam. She's not surprised that it's not Adam who is the patient. She looks straight into Adam's eyes and firmly states, "Where is he, Adam? Where's Roger?" Adam tells her to prepare herself, as he takes her to see Roger, who is now in a wheelchair. Roger tells her his condtion (ALS). He realized something was wrong with him when he was in Springfield. He had tests done privately, and when the doctors told him his condition, he fled Springfield and went to see his father. He didn't want anyone to see him like this - not Amanda, not Blake, certainly not anyone he regarded as an enemy (Alan). He faked his death carefully so that no one would ever learn the truth. He had no choice in getting ALS, but he does have a choice in how he will die. No one except his father and Holly will know about his condition.
Holly - feeling so many different emotions at this point - asks why Roger would tell her? Why now? After a heartfelt pause, Roger tells her that he loves her, he's never stopped loving her, and he couldn't love anyone - including Amanda - like he loves Holly. He never intended Holly to find out his condition. He wanted everyone in Springfield to remember him as he was, not the way he is now. He admits that he couldn't stop thinking about her - he became selfish - he finally had to see Holly one last time. Adam was glad to make the call to her.
Roger tells Holly that he's truly sorry for everything he put her through over the years. He tells her that he revised his will once he was diagnosed, and upon the time of his death, that new will shall be sent to Springfield to be read. Basically, the majority of his Spaulding stock will go to Holly, with the rest going to Blake. He will make sure Holly is taken care of financially. Holly tells her that she doesn't need his money. Roger looks up at her and just says, "Please accept this. For me." Roger insists to Holly she cannot tell Blake about his condition. He couldn't bear Blake seeing him like this. Roger and Holly look at each other one last time (both saying "I love you" and giving the audience closure between them) and Holly leaves, an emotional wreck.
Holly returns to Springfield feeling incredibly numb, her emotions spent from her time with Roger. Fletcher and Blake keep asking where she was, why she left, but she refuses to say anything (although she's very tempted to say something to Blake, but she keeps flashing back to Roger's plea, so she stays silent).
If Zaslow could still work, then the next part of the story is that Blake doesn't leave it alone, and traces where Holly went. She goes to the hospital herself. She finds Adam, who is shocked - yet very glad - to see her. Adam assumes that Holly told Blake about Roger, but Blake is in the dark. She pushes through Adam and finds Roger. She's stunned, but so happy to see her father alive. Roger at first thinks Holly went back on her word, but is relieved when Blake tells him that Holly told her nothing (which infuriates Blake). Roger tells Blake he never wanted her to see him like this. He loves her very much.
From there, Blake returns to Springfield livid with Holly. Adam would eventually come to Springfield to let Holly and Blake know that Roger passed away peacefully.
But then, there would be the issue with Roger's new will, which would have been filled with other surprises for the citizens of Springfield.
Roger might have finally been gone, but he wouldn't soon be forgotten...
I still wish they would have done a storyline similar to the above for R & H's final story...
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They brought in Janet Zarish, later on AMC and OLTL as Lee Halpern Sanders/Janet Ketring/Carole Dennison, I'll bet if it were Chapman, they would have used her more...
I never like Barr that much, she was just too "ABC'ish," to me...but they did indeed consider her for a recast Annie Stewart right before that other ABC actress took over.
The Natalie return the Dobson's did was so stupid. She was married to some greek tycoon film producer and she came to town to shoot a movie in Oakdale. She was tied to the Andropolous' as Steve stole her husband's necklace or something (I am remembering a "Green Fire," thing but have no idea if that was it...) and that is how she found out that Jay had kicked the bucket. The part was miscast...(no offense to Zarich but she was not a soap vixen..) and she didn't interact with any of her old family besides bitchy barbs with Lisa, and that was that.
Correct. Natalie's return in 1981 was horrid. As Mitch states, she had zero interaction with Tom. I remember watching and thinking, "What's the point?" The same was true when the Dobsons brought in Gary Hudson as a recast of Rick Ryan. It was a nice idea, but never really went anywhere - plus, Hudson was also miscast as Rick (in my opinion).
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Judith Chapman was playing Natalie around this time, correct?
Correct. I believe Judith's tenure as Natalie Bannon was from 1975 to 1978/9.
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Back to the Dan character.Someone suggested that rather than Sorasing Dan,Ellen could have had a younger brother who could have played out most of Dan's stories,leaving Dan to come of age in the mid 70's. So Ellen could have been concerned sister rather than mother,thus not pushing her into an older age bracket.
This would have been a much better option. In fact, Ellen could have had *two* brothers - "Dan" being one brother and another brother to assume the "Paul Stewart" role. So basically a "Dan Lowell" and a "Paul Lowell" who would have played out the original storylines. It would not have screwed up the canvas as much, plus it would have allowed the Lowell family to survive longer than they originally did on the show.
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But I thought Ryan's Betsy was insanely popular? I guess you all are debunking that myth.
She was…her marriage to Steve was the second highest rated wedding only behind Luke and Laura.
Yeah but many of you longterm ATWT are debunking that on this thread. I thought the whole Stewart family was beloved as they were second to the Hughes but again this thread and recent posts say otherwise.
There's no doubting that Meg Ryan was very popular as Betsy. Not immediately (she said that at a fan event the guy who played Steve asked everyone to raise their hands if she was their favorite Betsy, and pretty much no one did, as Suzanne Davidson's Betsy had been very popular with fans), but in time. Even now I've seen people talking about how they loved her. I wasn't watching at the time so my experience is mostly just clips and episodes.
As for the Stewarts, I think they were important to viewers, but were marred by poor writing, lack of depth, and many, many recasts. The only Stewart kids who seemed to have something of a following were the Dans (mainly John Reilly), Ryan's Betsy (I preferred Lindsay Frost but I get the feeling many viewers always preferred Ryan) and Jacqueline Schultz's Dee (who was, IMO, very poorly written - Schultz eventually quit for that reason). And then I guess Emily, to a point.
I thought John Colenback (the first adult Dan Stewart) had a pretty strong following, especially during the late 1960's/early 1970's when the Dan/Liz/Paul/Susan saga was in play. I still think it was a mistake to kill off Dan in 1979.
Didn't they kill him off b/c they said they had nowhere else to go with the character? They got all they could out of him?
But what do you think they should've/could've done with the character had he stayed?
Good question, and it ties in to what Paul stated above. Paul is right - Colenback's Dan didn't really have the same chemistry with Hayes that Reilly did. With that said, I would have started a Bob/Kim/Dan triangle immediately after Betsy found out that Dan was her dad instead of her uncle. Bob could have been her doctor during that deafness Betsy had (I think it was deafness), and Betsy could have bonded with Bob in a fatherly way (since she would have trust issues with Dan). Bob and Kim are drawn to each other again, creating conflict between Bob and Dan. Heck, I would have brought back Susan and Emily to make things even worse for Dan's situation. If they needed to get rid of Dan, they could always have Dan leave town healthy, and perhaps bring him back later if necessary. They always kept Kim and Bob apart during this time, and I hated Dana and Nick.
But, the SORAS-ing of Dan was always an issue back when Irna first did it in 1966. Its shifted the structure of the canvas quite a bit. Dan was supposed to be more of a peer to Tom Hughes, but instead was now a peer to Bob (instead of David being Bob's peer), Ellen was now a peer to Nancy, etc.
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But I thought Ryan's Betsy was insanely popular? I guess you all are debunking that myth.
She was…her marriage to Steve was the second highest rated wedding only behind Luke and Laura.
Yeah but many of you longterm ATWT are debunking that on this thread. I thought the whole Stewart family was beloved as they were second to the Hughes but again this thread and recent posts say otherwise.
There's no doubting that Meg Ryan was very popular as Betsy. Not immediately (she said that at a fan event the guy who played Steve asked everyone to raise their hands if she was their favorite Betsy, and pretty much no one did, as Suzanne Davidson's Betsy had been very popular with fans), but in time. Even now I've seen people talking about how they loved her. I wasn't watching at the time so my experience is mostly just clips and episodes.
As for the Stewarts, I think they were important to viewers, but were marred by poor writing, lack of depth, and many, many recasts. The only Stewart kids who seemed to have something of a following were the Dans (mainly John Reilly), Ryan's Betsy (I preferred Lindsay Frost but I get the feeling many viewers always preferred Ryan) and Jacqueline Schultz's Dee (who was, IMO, very poorly written - Schultz eventually quit for that reason). And then I guess Emily, to a point.
I thought John Colenback (the first adult Dan Stewart) had a pretty strong following, especially during the late 1960's/early 1970's when the Dan/Liz/Paul/Susan saga was in play. I still think it was a mistake to kill off Dan in 1979.
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It's always difficult for me to take Warren seriously, as he's such a hissy queen at times.
Agreed. It made it that much worse for me when they paired him with Alexandra.
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I wonder if Eddie Drueding has it on one of his wonderful AW DVDs. Has anyone ever checked with him? I can send him an email, to see what he says. Sadly, I no longer have the equipment to make copies of material from one format to another.
Unless someone can point out the specific DVD that its on, I don't believe he does.
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I still get confused by how JvD was ranked over Denise Pence (even Denise said he was). In the episodes where Ross debuts, Katie was already established in Springfield.
Good point, Carl. Now I am embarrassed. Denise was the longest running member at that time, having debuted in 1977. I, too, wondered why she didn't do the on-air dedication to Charita in 1985 (Jerry did it). She was still a cast member at that time, wasn't she?0 -
You are right about the new musical theme, which was lovely. The construction of the Four Musketeers was also a success. But axing a huge number of the cast and dumbing down the plots was not the way to rejuvenate a soap that had had a short-term problem with writing. Once so many of the core characters were eliminated, the show was left with terrible writing and a bunch of newbies, many of whom never caught on. Soap fans will remain loyal to their shows even through periods of upheaval, if at least their beloved veteran characters are there. With a destruction of the show's core AND lame-o plots like Jonathan Brooks' Talking Computer, The Dreaming Death, The Ghost in the Attic, etc., the show was ASKING for longtime viewers to flee, LOL.
For the record, even Pamela Long later admitted in an interview that her "fantasy" plots were not necessarily the best way for TGL to go. She said that she had learned that between writing fantasy and writing realistic storylines, it was better to get real. Her second stint as the show's headwriter was much better.
I completely agree. By October of 1984, the longest running cast member on GL was Jerry verDorn, who debuted on GL in 1979. To be fair, GL had cast overhauls previously over its rich history (primarily during the radio years), but nothing like that. I was someone who liked Pam Long's writing in a lot of cases, just not the decision to overhaul so much of the cast in a relatively short time period.
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I agree, Mitch. As stated earlier in this thread, some episodes from those years are in the UCLA Film and Television Archive, but are wasting away as "Non-circulating SRLF archival copies". Most all of the gems they have there from ATWT, GL, EON, and AW are classified as such. I wonder if anything will ever be done with those? Probably nothing, at least not in my lifetime...
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Was Elissa Leeds the first Hope?
Technically, Jennifer Kirschner was the first Hope Bauer (1963 to 1965, I think). Elissa Leeds was the second Hope, but actually debuted as Hope on "Another World" in 1966. She would reprise the role again in 1968.
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I can't recall who Claudia Dillman was? Johnnys grandma maybe?
Love reading about these old characters. Why was Leslie killed off? And why/when was Paul Fletcher written off? He seemed to last a long time. Why no picture of Mike?
Claudia was Marty Dillman's mother. Marty married Peggy Fletcher and they had one son named Billy. Marty was only on GL for less than a year (1968 to 1969), then was killed off. Claudia was around for as long as Marty, I believe, and then stopped appearing. I think she returned a couple of times in the 1970's (still played by Grace Matthews) trying to gain custody of Billy when Johnny Fletcher abandoned Peggy. I assume that would have been in either 1972 or 1973?
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Paul's right. I think it's even been discussed previously on this thread. The most popular reason discussed is that Lynne Adams wanted to leave GL as there wasn't much going on with the character of Leslie. I think the last storyline for Leslie was her desire to go back to college, and Mike disagreeing with her (a rather male chauvinistic attitude by Mike)? I think it was also brought up that the Dobsons weren't really sure what to do with Leslie, either, so they killed her off (they did the same with the character of Joe Werner in the same year). I have also heard that there was no "love loss" between Don Stewart and Lynne Adams, so that may have also factored in to Adams leaving.
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Did the real Tracy Delmar ever actually make it to town?
Good question. I don't think so. Wasn't Tracy Delmar already dead when Charlotte was revealed as an impostor by Flip Malone?
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It was Charita who proposed the story right? Having grown up watching her it was nice to see, they handled it, very well. Bert was a trouper but they allowed her to be scared too...she tried to be strong for everyone else and then during her party she dropped and broke a plate in the kitchen and couldnt pick it up and broke down and Mo was there for her. Nice scene and one of the last of the good Pam Long family storuy stuff as then the show became all Reva and the Lewis and Reva jumping out of planes in fur coats, and Infinity, etc.
Did Charita propose it? I thought I read somewhere (perhaps earlier in this very thread) that the story was suggested to Charita by Pam and Gail?
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I am almost afraid to post this for fear it will jinx the channel all over again, but "SoapsNthings" are posting more GL episodes from around November 1981 up on YT:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGd-CMhNwvTZ_b7flg44FdA/search?query=guiding+light+1981
The quality varies, but there is more from the Mike/Alan/Tenerife storyline, as well as plenty from Quint and Nola, etc.
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I just wonder how many such kinescopes of AW would have been kept. Would foreign markets have seen the benefit of preserving them?
There may not have been a specific benefit to keep them, but I can absolutely believe that some of them still exist out there.
NBC did not own Another World and did not archive the early black-and-white or color episodes. However, black and white kinescopes were routinely made to air in markets that did not have videotape machines or in markets that chose to air the series out of pattern. Procter and Gamble did syndicate early 70s episodes of some of its soaps, including Another World which was telecast in Australia as early as 1974.
It makes me wonder how much P & G have (or had) in their archive...
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I heard that NBC kept videotapes and film in a warehouse that was later destroyed by fire. Most of the game shows, much of the Tonight Show, and some of the primetime shows (such as Mr. Peepers) were all destroyed. What was there was probably also destroyed.
I wonder how much "Another World" was actually kept. I can see kinescopes of key episodes being saved, of course.
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I aways felt that they purposely underwrote for JC's Alice both times she returned in order to use her for a prop to VW's Rachel, so they could say "look, we made the right choice about who to keep all those years ago!" The fact that she didn't have any scenes with ghost-Steve during the anniversary epidodes, unlike Rachel and Jamie, was very telling.
That is a great point. JC and GR should have shared a sequence together during the Anniversary Week, without a doubt.
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As The World Turns Discussion Thread
in DTS: Cancelled Soaps
Posted · Edited by zanereed
Grammar
Carl,
Thank you very much for the link to the 1972 ATWT episode. It is always great to see another episode from this era. I love seeing John Colenback and Patricia Bruder in scenes together - they never did look like "mother and son" at all. I can really notice the fact that they are the same age (well, Colenback was actually OLDER than Bruder). Marie Masters looks AMAZING here.