zanereed

Agreed. One of most failed opportunities in the history of AW. Courtney was a valuable member of the campus, and could have easily been prominently featured in her return in 1984. The Matthews family had been obliterated by that point, and she could have been the foundation upon which that family could have been built back up again.

The other opportunity would have been to bring her back full time in 1989. The show should have tried to have kept a few familiar faces in 1989, especially post-25th anniversary. I would have loved for Russ, Alice, and Pat all to have stayed on. Pat was supposed to have been running the New York branch of Cory, wasn't she? In an effort to keep Iris at bay (no pun intended), Rachel should have brought Pat back to Bay City to help run Cory Publishing. Russ already had ties to Sharlene, and I could have seen a triangle between Russ, Sharlene, and John, but not necessary a romantic one - they could have started to play out the Josie parentage story right away between the three of them.

2 hours ago, Scrapple said:

I would've done a couple things:

1) Have Simon come back for Katie. Hooking her up with Chris was ridiculous.

 

2) Bring back Martha Byrne , even if a ghostly Rose appearance. She was the first woman to win a Lead Actress Emmy, and was a vital part of the show's history.

 

3) Give Henry and Vienna a proper goodbye (Henry could've stayed with Barbara, but H & V should've had one parting scene).

 

4)Have SOME final scenes for Lisa. Although I've never been an Eileen Fulton fan, her character was integral to the show's past. The way she was written at the end was humiliating.

 

5) The show should have brought back fan favorites at the end, instead of bringing on newbies nobody cared about. How about a Snyder Family reunion? What about Duncan, Shannon, Penny?

    It was like the show was ending after 5 years, not 54.

Exactly right. Personally, I would have had a big "Dr. Bob Retirement Party" that would have brought back many familiar faces for a final hurrah. I would have definitely brought back Penny. I'm not sure about Don Hughes, as Conard Fowkes had already passed away in 2009 (maybe bring back Martin West, who played Don Hughes previous to Conard, if he was up for it). But, definitely Ellen (to represent the Lowell family) and as many Stewarts as possible would return. I would have had Grant Coleman return for this event, and to have Grant either convince Lisa to leave with him and start anew or to have Grant stay with Lisa in Oakdale. I also would have loved to have had some final "closure" scene between Kim and Susan. I could see a scenario where Kim goes to Dan Stewart's grave on the anniversary of this death (more or less) and coincidentally, Susan appears around the same time. That would lead to them hashing out all of their history regarding Dan and Bob. Kathryn and Marie would have hit a home run with this, guaranteed.

21 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

Nice! Who do you think were the best writers GL had?

Bridget and Jerome Dobson will always be at the top of my "TGL Best Writers" list.

On 4/2/2017 at 8:58 AM, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

 

Thanks for keeping up with this and posting these links!

46 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

He was also a soap writer, wasn't he?

Correct. Both he and his wife, Fran Myers (Peggy, TGL) wrote for soaps, including TGL.

The underrated Roger Newman as Ken Norris. For those who only knew Ken as Holly's crazy brother from 1998-1999 on TGL, this is a good listen.

I'm glad more of the 1971 audio recordings are surfacing. It's great to hear Larry Gates in his non-HB Lewis role.

The Dobsons were perfect for TGL. For their ATWT, not so much. In fact, I still think their era was my favorite era of GL.

I agree with Mitch - Long and Marland would have likely been a great combo for exactly the reasons stated above. If Pam and Gail Kobe hadn't completely wiped out GL's history/legacy in almost a year, I think I would have a much better impression of that era. For every Four Musketeers, there's "Brandon-Spaulding-back-from-the-dead/Susan Piper" debacle (IMHO).

1 hour ago, robbwolff said:

While he may not have been paired with Vanessa, it's very possible that Billy might have shown up if Marland had continued writing. Ditto HB. The character of Billy Lewis was mentioned in a clip Robert Newman recently posted showing his scenes from his first episode in October 1981. Josh's first scenes were with Trish, Amanda, Mike, Jennifer, and Morgan, and he and Trish talk about Billy. I believe HB was also mentioned during the Marland era.

 

HB was definitely mentioned during Marland's term. In some clips still available on YouTube from around 1982, I believe, Trish mentions to Mike about her really wanting Mike to meet her brother and her father, mentioning them both by name. I have a feeling Marland would have eventually introduced them both.

They should have at least allowed Zaz to come back to film some final scenes with Holly and Blake. At the very least those two, at least to give some sort of closure to the character. I would have been fine for them to write in the ALS. I didn't even think Roger would need to escape Springfield. I think he could have died in real time, but still had an impact for years to come in Springfield, thanks in part to Roger's will which could have instigated tons of storylines.

On 1/27/2017 at 0:13 AM, Vee said:

I think if CBS All Access is to succeed it could do well there just as other soaps could on Netflix, etc. The Degrassi model works and I've talked about how our soaps could easily adapt. The OLTL/AMC potential seasonal model is what Degrassi, etc. follow now. We've talked about how to continue it, too. GL is a unique and historical CBS brand.

The problem is that TGL is not a CBS brand, it's a Proctor & Gamble brand, and it seems like P & G has zero interest in doing anything with that brand. I'm guessing they don't/won't even care to ever license it.

19 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

January 25, 1937: The Guiding Light was born, and became the longest-running drama (so far) in broadcast history, thrilling audiences for decades (well, from 1937 to 1984, anyway, and then again in the early 1990s).

 

Ahh, the good old days.

Agreed. I miss it. I'm glad I have the Soap Classics DVDs, some DVD-Rs from trading, and YouTube to make up for that loss. In my opinion, it was really on fire in the mid to late 1970's with the Dobsons at the helm. It's too bad that not much of that era survives at all.

15 hours ago, danfling said:

zanereed , Don Stewart also appeared on Dragnet prior to being a recast Michael on The Guiding Light.   I cannot remember who had the role for a short time before he did.   Could someone refresh my memory.

Robert Pickering is who you are thinking of, I believe This is one of the few photos I've found of him (2 years before he would play Mike Bauer on TGL) from "Let's Kill Uncle".

16 hours ago, Mitch said:

In Long's defense I think she did a great job on the Reardon's for the first year or two.  They seemed like a real family...(and she transitioned the Irish Reardon framily from Marland's typical waspy Protestant to Catholic..) and she did a great job on Nola's wedding and the little touches...(I remember the bridesmaids getting ready in the Church basement, complete with vollyball net, etc, much to Van's dismay.) Something just happened and her writing on the abruptly changed. And yes, Tony Reardon was HOT.

 

I never understood why they didn't make Nosy Rosy Nola a reporter..I hated Jay Hammer's Fletcher but a triangle with Quint her and a hot reporter would have been good. I don't think Quint was made to be a long term character. He was too stylized for GL and he instead of Hillary should have been killed in the cottage bomb which would open Nola up for more stories.

 

I actually don't think it was Reva who watered down Vanessa but actually Alex. I think they thought she took over the aristocratic rich, driven. "botch" role and left Van with nothing to do. I think Long's second tenure she got Van right...not a bitch or a wimpy wife to Billy but a strong woman with her own identity.

Exactly right. Halfway through Long's first writing stint (I'm thinking mid-1984) things just got weird. Susan Piper weird. That and the whole "Dreaming Death" storyline fit more in line with Dark Shadows than TGL.

Nola would have made an excellent reporter. After thinking about your Quint comment, having him killed to free up Nola would have been a great idea. In fact, it really should have been Nola versus Annabelle having "visions" in that whole Piper storyline.

2 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

I've also watched a few from 1977-1979, and dare I say it, I think I might actually prefer GL of this era over ATWT. GL's focus was already shifting to newer characters/families, but GL seemed to go more gradually (yet willingly) into the new direction. ATWT held out until 1980-1981, and it was a complete shock to the system.

I would agree. I loved the Dobson era of GL. The Dobsons - while introducing new characters and families - made certain to have those characters interact with core characters. I believe the Dobsons wrote out Ken and Andy Norris, Janet Mason, Joe Werner and Leslie Bauer (though I think this was the choice of the Lynne Adams).  Characters like Justin Marler interacted with Sara McIntyre. Rita was placed with Ed. Jackie Marler was placed with Mike Bauer (briefly), as were the Spauldings (more long term). Hillary Kincaid was eventually revealed to be a Bauer. Bill Bauer returned briefly. They didn't overhaul the show so much that it became unrecognizable.

However, I never understood their ATWT run at all.

16 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

It never made any sense to me why they didn't, since the 1997 one seemed to be well-received. I guess Rauch was one of many producers who just didn't care about the Bauers (although he or whoever at P&G at least kept Mary Stuart on even during her illness, which is more than I can say for ABC around this point...or for P&G a few years earlier with Zaslow). Stewart's performance seemed strong and likeable in the few scenes he had. 

 

It's too bad he never really had more soap work either - you'd think he would have fit in well on the Marland-era ATWT as a love interest for someone like Lisa, or younger women. I don't know how Marland felt about him but he did write for him at GL, generally. 

 

I think he was a temp recast on AW or SB but that's all I remember. 

Yes, Stewart subbed for Nicolas Coster for one episode in 1985, I think.

38 minutes ago, robbwolff said:

 

I'm really curious as to who wrote the Annabelle storyline. Browne claims that Guiding Light used her bible until late 1983 though she left the show by late March/early April. Annabelle was actually introduced in April 1983, the period where Carolyn DeMoney Culliton and Gary Tomlin were serving as interim head writers. And the story with the mysterious photo kicked off when Pamela Long Hammer and Richard Culliton arrived in May.

So am I. I think it was discussed earlier in this very thread, but I don't know that there was ever a definitive answer. I think at one point I assumed it was L. Virginia Browne's idea. But now you have me reconsidering again - as was indicated a few pages back, things that Browne said regarding her time on GL weren't always so accurate.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

@zanereed I saw this a few days ago and decided to make a clip of it as I thought you might like it (if you've already seen it my apologies...)

 

 

Thank you!!! I vaguely remember this, but I haven't seen it since it aired. I only saw Don Stewart on a few nighttime shows (Profiler, X-Files, 90210) during the 1990's. I wish he would have returned to TGL beyond just the short cameo in 1997.

On 12/16/2016 at 8:08 PM, vetsoapfan said:

 

But I have always felt Jed Allan would have been a good Mike. Attractive, affable, strong, a good actor, and popular within the daytime community. He was a weird choice for Edward Quartermaine, but he would have been a good for for Mike Bauer, IMHO.

 

She continued the story with Amanda and Mark Evans as well, and added pathos to it. She had Nola experience one of her movie fantasies, this time based on Mata Hari. She had warm, touching scenes between the characters (Bert and Hillary talked about Bill and their interpersonal relationships, Sara and Mike discussed the value of enduring friendships, Vanessa confessed to Henry about her longstanding insecurities in life). It was all so great,  character-driven, and very TGL-y.

 

I do not think Long wrote well for Vanessa or Nola overall. She gave them a few cute scenes now and again but did not seem to know how to handle them in the long run.  The actresses said as much in later interviews. But of course, everyone has his own take on what he sees on screen, and what I dislike other viewers may adore. To each his own.

I agree - Jed Allan would definitely have been a good Mike Bauer. I still think if Peter Simon hadn't left the show in 1984, Kobe and Long might have sent Mike off the canvas for a bit and had him come back at Christmas in 1984 played by a new actor. There would have been fan outcry, of course, but I could see Jed Allan winning viewers over quickly.

I wish I still had some of PFS's episodes to watch. As you stated, she was very good a character interaction, plus the fact that she brought up Bill Bauer in conversation was a plus. I always wondered if PFS had a germ of an idea to bring Bill Bauer back, which then L Virgina Browne used for the Annabelle/Eli Simms storyline (that killed off Bill Bauer for good).

On 12/15/2016 at 2:08 PM, Mitch said:

For Mike, I don't know. I do know that I would have screen tested and gotten the approval of Bev as I would make him the real love of her life eventually, they just can't seem to agree on anything.  I actually think Raines would have made a better Mike but I don't know if he would have had chemistry with Bev.. Maybe Jed Allen???

I'm laughing right now picturing 6'3" Jed Allen as Mike Bauer staring down at 5'11" Peter Simon as Ed Bauer!

I thought Pat Falken Smith did great work in the small time she was there. Now I can't recall, even though it was discussed here previously - was she fired by Potter or someone else at P & G? I don't think she overlapped with Kobe at all, did she?

I'm still trying to remember the whole Bill Bauer/Simone Kincaid/Victor Kincaid/Paul Kincaid storyline. I still think that only Hillary was Bill's bio-daughter. From what I remember:

1. Bill and SImone meet in Switerland and had an affair.

2. Bill returns to Springfield and Simone is pregnant with Hillary.

3. Simone moves to Vancouver and meets and marries Victor Kincaid. Kincaid passes off Hillary as his own.

4. I thought that Simone then got pregnant again shortly into their marriage and had Paul.

But, here's where it gets confusing...

5. Bill at some point located Simone in Vancouver and they had an affair again...I think this was even before Bill's plane crashed in 1969. It could have been that Paul was conceived during one of their flings, so both of them were Bill's?

This is probably the most the whole saga has been discussed about since it ended in 1978! 

2 minutes ago, robbwolff said:

According to the GL anniversary book, Paul was the son of Bill and Simone, though the information in the book may have been wrong.

Thanks. I still recall Victor being the father of Paul during that whole storyline. Simone married Victor Kincaid while being pregnant with Hillary, and Paul was born during their marriage (before Bill arrived in Vancouver).

Just now, Mitch said:

Oh, did not know that...was a kid when that was going on..but yea, I did mean the Paul character.

I was just a kid when that was happening as well, so I was wondering if I might not have remembered the storyline correctly and Bill fathered both of the kids.

54 minutes ago, Mitch said:

Bert's death and funeral were the perfect time to turn the ship around and reintroduce some Bauers. I would have recast both Mike and Hope (sorry, ER never did it for me..) especially with Alan headed back to town. Mike could have gotten with Alex and Hope with Ross..both enough to bug Alan. I would also have brought back Meta, and all this could have been handled as they came back for the funeral and decided to stay (I would have had Bert leave Hope her house in her will, a house which Hope always thought of us "home" and Mike would decide to represent Ed and Mo in the custody of Michelle.) Meta would have taken over the Boarding House so she could dispense advice to all the newbies who would invariably live there.

Great ideas, especially Bert leaving her house to Hope. Just curious - who would you have wanted to play Mike and Hope?

31 minutes ago, Mitch said:

People keep forgetting, Bill Bauer had an boy with Simone..so a new side of the family would have made sense that way...( I think a hot guy, maybe a cop, could have been involved with Reva at the time she was involved with that goofy doctor/spy guy.)

You mean Paul Kincaid? I thought Paul really was the son of Victor and Simone Kincaid (unlike Hillary).

49 minutes ago, robbwolff said:

Rick's return wasn't a short-term visit. He stayed around until early 1991.

 

Sheri Anderson was head writer at that time and seemed intent on beefing up the presence of the Bauers through Johnny's family members. Of course, those weren't the Bauers that viewers wanted to see. As I recollect, Mary Stuart was even supposed to join the show in 1987 as Hannah Bauer.

 

Hope Bauer was slated to return in 1986. Then head writer Jeff Ryder talked about Hope returning in a Soap Opera Digest interview. I might be wrong, but I think he even mentioned Alan-Michael in that interview. In the same interview, he also discussed introducing Sarah and Rusty Shayne. Weeks later, Ryder was out and Mary Ryan Munisteri's disastrous reign began.

Sorry, Robb. I didn't mean to single out Rick Bauer. I knew O'Leary was back long term at that point. I meant that the show could have brought back other legacy characters for the 50th, even if was for a short term visit.

I though both Hope and Mike were slated to return (in one form or another - I suspect recasts for both) in 1986.

Oh, gawd...Mary Ryan Munisteri...

37 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

To me, having Hulswit return as Ed would have sufficed too, but ideally, I would have wanted both him and Stewart back on screen as tentpole characters.

 

It was just so misguided to fire Hulswit in the first place. Marland claimed they wanted a younger, sexier Ed to play romantic stories, but...look at the lead on daytime's top-rated GENERAL HOSPITAL during the early 1980s: Tony Geary. Hardly the epitome of male beauty! TPTB didn't, and don't, understand that the audience responds to actors for many different reasons, and we are not all obsessed with six-packs and chiseled cheek bones. Hulswit was a cuddly teddy bear; quite adorable in his own way. Patriarchs, in particular, do not need to be sex-gods. The audience just wants them to be...endearing and comforting. 

 

On the show, to explain Charita Bauer's absence after she passed away, it was said  that Bert was out of town visiting Meta in Florida because Meta had had a stroke. After the character of Bert also died, it would have made perfect sense for Aunt Meta to return to Springfield to be with her family. Months later, Jeff Ryder, who was writing TGL when it dealt with Bert's death, acknowledged that the audience kept clamoring for the Bauers to return, but claimed there weren't even many of them to bring back. Only Mike and Hope. He had already forgotten about poor Meta, LOL. In any case, he had no interest in reinvesting in that family.

Hulswit apparently rubbed Marland the wrong way. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, Hulswit seemed to be the only actor that Marland was ever negative towards in an interview from the mid-1980's. I had read somewhere that Potter fired Hulswit because he was so critical of the writing. Marland must not have taken kindly to that.

However, he could have been brought back in 1986 when it was a new regime. I agree, when it comes to the patriarchs, looking like an Adonis is not a prerequisite. Well, Don Stewart was an exception I suppose...

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

 

Holly lost her daughter Meg due to her indexisiveness over Roger..and Fletcher got fed up and left with their daughter.  Holly felt guilt..drank...blamed herself for being a bad mother...then viewed other women who neglected their kids and decided to punish them.

 

The riddles and methods she used were clever...but the aftermath was cut short...sadly...including a few scenes of holly and Annie befriending each other.

The one thing I was shocked by during the Nursery Rhyme Storyline was that they brought back Holly's brother, Ken Norris - still being played by Roger Newman! Although I think Newman was a writer on the show at the time, it was still nice to see the show dig back into its history and bring back a legacy character. It's too back they didn't do more with Ken. They could have brought in his daughter that he had with Janet and expanded the Norris family a bit more.

18 minutes ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

I've just always felt that Ed got off easy with Maureen's death. In actuality, Maureen's (like any real family) would've wreaked havoc on Ed & Lillian. Plus, it would've been interesting to see Vanessa involved too as she has ties to Ed and the Reardons.

 

While Vanessa was Maureen's best friend, would she side with Ed out of pity or turn on him? I'd personally have her be pissed with Ed but side with him just cause, thus reigning her beef with Nola. Lisa Brown & Maeve Kinkead in fiery, tense scenes would've been EVERYTHING. It would've been interesting to see how Quint would've factored in the situation too. Maureen's death should've trickled down the canvas and affected the characters for years. 

 

Of course, JFP's lame ass skipped that beat. 

He really did. I don't remember any real consequences for Ed and Lillian.

I also thought that Ed would get some heat from Roger. Once again, Ed Bauer took something away from Roger Thorpe (whether directly or indirectly), this time a good friend. I figured Maureen's death would have/could have kick-started an Ed/Roger feud again.

7 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

If TPTB at the time had wanted to repair the damage to the show, they should have at least tried to lure Mart Hulswit back as Ed Bauer. The idea of foisting a "younger, sexier" Ed onto the audience was a complete disaster; Hulswit was a comforting, familiar face and a good, solid actor. The audience would have been at least partially mollified to have him back as the patriarch of the Bauer family.

 

If Elvera Roussel did not agree to return, I would have accepted Robin Mattson as a newly-matured, stronger Hope Bauer. Mattson had grown a lot as an actress since her portrayal of Hope years before, and the show could have capitalized on her popularity from the ABC soaps. Alan-Michael should NOT have been SORASed so quickly.

 

In an ideal world, I'd try to get Don Stewart back on contract as well, even though rumors were that he was difficult to work with. And I would have put out feelers to Ellen Demming, to see if she was still interested in acting and would like to reappear, even on a nominal, recurring basis, as Aunt Meta.

 

Just having Hulswit, Roussel or Mattson, and perhaps Demming on-screen would have helped the show feel like TGL again. Allowing the Bauers to remain gutted year after year was so disrespectful to the show's history and its loyal fans. It's like if the producers of The Waltons wanted us to watch the show with only a replacement actor in the role of Jim-Bob to carry on the family's legacy.

 

It amazes me how TPTB at all the soaps have been allowed to make such inept, stupid and REPEATED mistakes for so long.

Yes, Hulswit should have been the one to return as Ed in 1986 versus Simon. It would have helped immensely. Also, just think of how much more of an impact the returns of Holly and Roger would have been with Hulswit as Ed. I think that Ed Bauer would have had a lot more story and interaction with Roger if that were the case. I remember seeing a soap mag in 1990 with a photo of Zaslow and Hulswit together, and Hulswit looked exactly the same as in 1981, so he would have been perfectly fine back in the role. I wonder if they did reach out to him in 1986 but he turned it down? I would have loved Stewart back as Mike, but Hulswit would have sufficed just fine. As you said, Stewart apparently was problematic to work with, so there might have been reluctance to ask him back.

I read somewhere (probably earlier in this thread?) that Kobe and Long were fine doing a complete overhaul of TGL cast (letting long time vets go in favor of new characters) as long as they had Charita there as the heart of the show. I know that Kobe and Long both encouraged the Bert leg amputation storyline for Charita to do. Apparently they were shocked when she passed away, as they never realized how sick she really was. Regardless, TPTB definitely should have brought in Meta (preferably with Demming in the role). Meta could have decided to come back and stay in Springfield after Bert's passing, even if just a recurring presence for the rest of the Bauer family.

16 hours ago, robbwolff said:

 

As I recollect. one fan favorite did return around the 50th anniversary week: Rick Bauer. Rick had left Springfield earlier that year and then returned in late June/early July. Around that time, the soap press made a big deal about GL beefing up the Bauer family by reintroducing Rick, introducing a SORAsed Alan-Michael, and adding Johnny's sister Lacey. Plus, Johnny and Lacey's brother Todd was supposedly going to show up.

 

Ah, yes - correct. While it was great to have Rick back, that was just *one* legacy Bauer who came back, even if it was only a short-term visit. I don't recall a mention during the 50th of Mike Bauer, no mention of Meta or any other legacy Bauers, and having a SORAsed Alan-Michael arrive essentially squashed any chance of Hope Bauer ever returning. While I did like Alan-Michael, I still think he was SORAsed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too quickly. If anything, I would have loved to have seen Hope Bauer be the one who parachuted into Springfield - a changed Hope (probably recast if Elvera wouldn't do it) who - since leaving Springfield 4 years ago - has become a stronger person than the one who was duped by Alan on so many occasions. The old Hope would have never taken a risk of parachuting, but this Hope would. It would be symbolic of an independent Hope would has taken control of her life. She would be more of a risk-taker both personally and professionally.

Alan, of course, would be horrified at this change in Hope, and would immediately try to get custody of a non-SORAsed Alan-Michael.

5 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

But thinking of Sarah's funeral, I've always felt the same way about the Reardons not being shown during Maureen's funeral. It was so odd for them to mention that the Reardons decided to go to the boarding house instead of showing them. I would've loved to have seen some powerhouse scenes with them being divided on the issue of Ed causing Maureen's death. While GL was firing on all cylinders with that story, it could've been so much better to have Jim, Tony, Chelsea, and Nola chewing Ed out while Bea tries to calm matters. 

Now that would have been good drama to play out. Unfortunately, I doubt JFP had any thoughts regarding that when she decided to kill off Maureen. It also would have given Peter Simon some good material to work with moving forward, even if you could only have a couple of Reardons on at the time (Bea and Nola would be been great, but was Lisa Brown even available in 1993?).