zanereed

2 hours ago, ironlion said:

I grew up in a primarily CBS soap house, and my memories were of 2000s GL. I never gave the show much respect until I saw what it had been in the late 70s (with all the Roger & Holly drama)and the 90s on YouTube. I think things were pretty good up until the Reeva clone and new face Annie mess.

 

What would you all consider the definitively best period of GL, and when did it go off the rails?

Honestly, for my personal best period, I have to go with the time frame between 1977 and 1980. By 1977, the Dobson era was more or less solidified, and there were a good mixture of established characters and new ones. The addition of The Spauldings when the show expanded to an hour in late 1977 only served to strengthen the show. The biggest "dud" during the Dobson's time frame (IMHO) was the botched return of Bill Bauer. It had so much potential, but it unfortunately failed to "stick the landing", as the saying now goes. The ending of my favorite era would be when Roger Thorpe fell to his "death" on April 1, 1980.

As far as going off the rails...for me, that was during the end of 1984, when there was nothing left of the legacy of TGL. Any legacy characters from the previous decade or two were either fired or written off. Charita Bauer was the only exception, and she would unfortunately pass away at the end of that year. Katie and Floyd Parker would eventually be written out in 1985, and only Ross Marler survived.

6 hours ago, Mitch said:

Bert was indeed front and center with Long and Kobe...to their credit, and yes, the plan was for Bert and H.B....(when they Lewis boys came to town and went on a yelling spree in Cedars Bert put a stop to them right away...)Bert was running the Patient Advocate program (I wish they would have had Abby take that up later in a nod to history) and in what had to be a scene written for Bert  before Charita become ill, H.B. came looking for her to give him advice on his kids and found Mo instead and talked to her.  The explanation for Bert being gone was that she was visiting Meta and then Mo went to visit and came back and told Ed, and the viewing audience, not to be upset but Bert had lost a lot of weight but she is fine.

 

I don't understand why they did not bring Meta in then to fill the void or use Bea instead of just letting her sit there and then the actress left. 

Thank you for the clarification - my memory is certainly cheating lately. I'm going to make it a point to watch whatever earlier episodes are available on from all of 1983 and early 1984 on YT.

Earlier this year I was watching the spring and summer of 1984, because I was trying to remember how the Alexandra/Mike/Lilian triangle played out. I'm thinking that Charita must not have been well during August, when the Springfield Founders Day Celebration was happening. In fact, it was jarring to see HB Lewis giving a speech about Springfield, when he had only been there for less than a year!

I wonder why the show didn't try to redirect back to HB/Bert, once Charita had started reappearing during the spring and summer of 1984?

48 minutes ago, 72Hearts said:

Speaking of Pam long? I have an of and on (friendly) argument with a friend whether she was the best GL writer? She certainly brought on lots of great characters but I don't think she was great at ensemble storytelling.

Bridget and Jerome Dobson are still my favorite writers for TGL.

2 hours ago, robbwolff said:

I think Bert was off-screen in early 1984, not 1983. She was very prominent throughout 1983. She was in the story involving the older German hospital patient (Martin). Didn't Annabelle live with her after she was introduced? Bert was part of the story involving Annabelle and Eli, which led to Bill Bauer's murder. They even hinted at a possible romance between Bert and HB. I think Bert went off-screen after the story involving the mystery of Annie Sims ended. She returned in May 1984 when Tony and Annabelle were married.

Thank you, @robbwolff - it *was* 1984, which I assume was because of Charita's surgery? Did they give any reason on-screen as to why? I'm now starting to think they never did address any sister of Bert's after all, and @vetsoapfan was absolutely correct!

17 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

To my knowledge, the show never acknowledged Bruce Banning's existence at all when Bert went to take care of Meta in the mid-1980s, nor did they mention him when Meta returned to Springfield in 1996. Of course, I may have missed an off-handed comment in passing about the character.

You are probably right. At first, I thought the show mentioned in passing that Bruce Banning had passed away (which would be an easy way to handle it), but then I read in other places like Soap Central (again, riddled with character and timeline errors) that Meta had divorced Bruce. I'm going to side with you in that the show probably never did address this at all.

17 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I have no memory of Bert going to a sister's funeral in 1983 at all. Thank heavens we can all pool our memory resources. Watching the show every day, I'm annoyed I could have missed/forgotten a fact like that.

 

I believe Lisa's mother's name was Alma Miller, not Elsa.

@vetsoapfan, "Elsa" was the forum member I was replying to above  - Lisa's mother was indeed "Alma"!

I am wondering if I am misremembering Charita being off screen in 1983, as your memory is so keen that I would trust yours more than mine at this point!

On 4/30/2021 at 12:48 PM, vetsoapfan said:

 

Well, Allen had worked on The Secret Storm, which was filmed in New York, so you never know! 

 

I did want Stewart to be rehired, but was open to a recast, as long as it was better than the ones we endured for some other characters.

 

 

TGL had written Bert out of the show by saying that she had gone to Florida to care for Meta, who had had a stroke. Bert passed away in Meta's home the next year, when the show finally addressed Charita Bauer's death. It would have made perfect sense for Ed to have asked Meta to come back to Springfield at that time, so he could keep an eye on her. There was no word of Meta's final husband, Bruce Banning, and what had happened to him. As far as I know, however, TGL made no mention of Meta again until they hired Mary Stuart to take over the role in 1996. I can't find any acting credits for Demming after TGL, so I imagine she was retired, although that is purely speculation on my part. In the mid-1980s, she was only 64; not too old to return to act on the show if they had asked. Heck, even in 1996, she could have returned. Many folks in their mid-70s are still healthy. I'm not sorry we got Mary Stuart, of course, but for nostalgia's sake, I would have preferred to see Demming again. I adored her. 

 

 

It ended up being too top-heavy on the "new" version of TGL from the Reva years onwards for my taste, alas.

At that point in 1986, it would have been fine even for Mary Stuart to come on as Meta after SFT was cancelled (assuming Demming was retired from acting), stating that Bert had passed away, and then immediately have Meta became situated in Springfield.

@vetsoapfan- do you recall when on-screen they addressed that Meta had divorced Bruce Banning. I have this feeling that the show did mention it in passing, but I cannot recall when that was. Was it as late as 1984, when Bert went to Florida off-screen?

On 4/30/2021 at 1:54 PM, vetsoapfan said:

 

I know Soap Central lists Alma Jean Miller as Bert's sister, but that website is riddled with errors, so I always figured this was yet another one. In all my decades watching TGL, I had never known Bert had a sibling. I only knew about her mother. If you heard Alma Jean being verified on-screen, however, I trust you. 

1 hour ago, Elsa said:

Wasn't Alma Miller the name of Lisa's mother on ATWT?

I remember that some time during 1983, Charita was off the show for a time, and the reason was that her sister passed away off-screen, and Bert was at the funeral (which made me curious as to why no one else went with her...?). I swore that they called her "Alma Jean" on screen. @Elsa, you are also correct - Lisa' mother was also named "Elsa". I wonder if that was an Irna Phillips influence in both cases...?

On 4/27/2021 at 2:56 AM, vetsoapfan said:

 

I fantasized about Jed Allen taking over the role of Mike Bauer after Don Stewart was let go. I would have been satisfied with him as Mike, Mart Hulswit returning as Ed, and Ellen Demming being lured out of retirement to play Meta Bauer in whatever capacity she was up for.

 

Now that I think about Raines, however, I also would have preferred him playing Mike instead of Alan.

 

BTW, have folks seen this?

 

 

Jed Allen would have likely been a perfect Mike Bauer, but would he have been too perfect? Meaning, would we have looked at him and said, "It's Don Craig playing Mike Bauer!"  I also doubt that they could have gotten Jed Allen to portray him, as I understood that he was firmly planted on the West Coast, and I'm not certain he could have been lured to an East Coast show?

@vetsoapfan, you might have mention this earlier, so I apologize for forgetting, but was Ellen Demming retired from acting by the mid-1980's? I still wonder why no one ever thought to bring Meta back in the 1980's versus waiting an entire decade before doing so.

Also, thank you for the YT link - I have something to watch this weekend!

I have never, ever heard a bad word uttered about Charita. It seemed the entire cast loved her, and writers loved writing for her.

And Bert did have a sister, Alma-Jean Miller. Unfortunately, I think the show chose to kill off Alma-Jean off-screen around 1983 (again, the same year they killed off Bill Bauer on screen). Bringing on Bert's sister would have been a great alternative at the time of her funeral.

I kept seeing Pilon as Max DuBujak (his character on Ryan's Hope) during his time on TGL, which was probably my biggest issue. I guess that may be why TPTB at TGL ended up casting him in the first place?

Raines was a different story, altogether. I think Raines would have made a better Mike Bauer than he ever did as Alan Spaulding.

47 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

"Crap" describes it perfectly. Compare this to Papa Bauer's memorial service. Sigh.

For Bert, they mentioned *in passing* that Mike sang at her service, yet no Mike on screen. I know by then TPTB had burned bridges with actors like Stewart and Roussel, but I'm guessing if asked to appear to honor Charita, both would have done it. Or, if they were looking to finally bring the characters back in recasts, then this would have been the opportunity to do so. But, as @vetsoapfan stated, there were no close friends, no family other than Ed...just horrid.

16 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I don't recall Mike Bauer crossing back over to TGL while he was on AW, either. When the character left TGL and went over to AW, I was happy to see he was still being played by Gary Pillar, whom I had liked. After Mike moved away from Bay City in 1967, I don't think we saw him back on TGL again until Don Stewart took over the role in 1968.

Robert Pickering played Mike Bauer for a few months in 1968 when the character returned to Springfield, but by November or December of that same year Stewart took over. I don't recall if Pickering left or if the show decided to recast?

On 4/20/2021 at 1:39 AM, Paul Raven said:

I guess P&G and NBC both wanted AW to succeed, and at that point it was still struggling.

Remember in those days P&G had a policy that none of its sponsored shows could compete with one another so there was no issue there.

I think Agnes Nixon was writing both shows so that was another reason to do it.

My questions regarding the crossover.

Was Mike appearing on TGL before he arrived in Bay City?

I think he had been offsreen on TGL after his marriage to Julie.

Did he return to TGL for a while and then announce his move to AW or just turn up on AW and maybe a mention on TGL that Mike has taken up a new job...

I think the character of Mike Bauer had been away from TGL for a few months (maybe closer to a year?) when Mike and Hope first arrived in Bay City in 1966, although Mike was still played by Gary Pilar when he did appear on AW. I assume that they would have referenced it on TGL, but I don't think Mike ever "crossed over" back to TGL during 1966/1967.

3 hours ago, Forever8 said:

 

Thank you so much for sharing this, @Forever8!

On 4/16/2021 at 7:44 PM, Franko said:

George Reinholt "wouldn't mind doing another soap." I wonder if any of the remaining New York shows -- ATWT, GL, RH, LOV, AMC, SFT -- ever considered him or took an attitude of life's too short for that kind of drama.

As I mentioned earlier, I now wish that GL had hired Reinholt to replace Chris Bernau in 1988 as Alan Spaulding (he was a much better fit IMHO than Daniel Pilon), although we may never have gotten Michael Zaslow back as Roger Thorpe, had that actually occurred.

On 4/16/2021 at 7:50 PM, j swift said:

I'm going with Melissa (Lisa Trusel) because we're in the height of the Pete/Ivy triangle, and Kimberly (Patsy Pease) given that Shane just quit the ISA - also they both are most memorable as flaccid and colorless IMO

I agree with this 100% - it has to be Trusel.

4 hours ago, Mitch said:

I like the idea zanereed, but she comes to town thinking she is a Spaulding, she is bad, she is greedy, she is sarcastic and fun..but then she finds out she is actually a Bauer!!! I wanted Ed to have a kid with Rita, who Roger found and adopted, or took under his wing to learn the wicked ways of Thorpe.  He lies to the kid and tells him Alan is his father who abandoned him to and raises him to get revenge on the Spauldings.  Rog was playing a long con though and the kid is actually Ed's. I thought of it as a boy but Poser would have been great..trying to fit in and have dinner in the Bauer kitchen smoking and rolling her eyes "No Michelle, I don't care about your love life, and Rick, your impressions really suck!" I could kinda see MOL and Poser as siblings with their curly dark hair.  That time in 95 when  they brought Poser on and Alan is off with Reva in Amishville woudl have been perfect for a fake illegitimate to come back and claim her piece of the puzzle all to find out she too was fooled by Roger. 

I love your ideas for Poser, @vetsoapfan and @Mitchespecially this one above. I would have taken it a step further to make it more "soapy", with Poser's character coming to town thinking she is Alan's love child with Rita. Roger becomes suspicious of her claims and decides to have blood work done. To his shock (and delight?), Poser's character isn't a Spaulding, but a Bauer. Not only is she a Bauer, but the bio daughter of Ed! And only Roger knows this. I wonder if Lenore Kasdorf could have ever been persuaded to return at Rita? I think they wanted her to return in 1989 when Zaslow and Garrett came back, but she declined.

Pondering it now, I think I would have cast Poser as Alan's love child...with Rita Stapleton. I can't remember if the show hinted at Rita being pregnant when she fled Springfield in 1981, but having Rita be pregnant with Alan's child, and Poser's character finding out later in life that she was a Spaulding and then wanting her share of the pie would have made that character more interesting. Timewise, she still could have fit, as she still would have been younger than A-M (although by months versus years). Poser's character could have found out from Rita because Rita was dying off camera, or finding out from a still-living Rita, and Rita could have been brought back to Springfield later on if needed.

I think Hulswit and MOL would have visually looked believable as father and son. I never saw Simon and MOL that way at all.

I thought Born would have been an excellent Alan, as well. Born was a decade younger than Bernau, but just grey the temples - it works every time .

8 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I agree: although I had a great many problems with how the show was being run while Long was there originally, it became significantly worse once Ryder was on his own. Bert Bauer's memorial service was a travesty.

 

Simon was similar on SFT: quiet, not much energy, somewhat morose. But I had no one to compare him to there; he was the only Scott I knew, so I could accept him much easier on that show. On TGL, he was following in the footsteps of the warm and wonderful Mart Hulswit, and Simon just did not cut it. He may be a fine actor, but he was miscast in this role. (To be fair, Richard Van Fleet was worse.)

The Bert Bauer Memorial Service was indeed a travesty. You have an original character of the show - someone who had been with it for 32 years in Charita Bauer - pass away, and it took almost 2 years and a heap of viewer mail for the show to finally address it on air. To top it all off, they never even showed the funeral. Ed mentions in passing that Mike was there and sang at it - good grief, that is what the audience wants to actually SEE!  TGL should have rolled out the red carpet and brought back everyone they could for it: Mike, Hope, Meta, Trudy, Clyde (if alive), as well as other friends of Bert's over the years. Where was Peggy Fletcher? Adam Thorpe? Sara McIntyre? Barbara Norris Thorpe? Even if the friends were not possible, the family should have been there. This would have been the perfect opportunity to have the fan favorites make an appearance, or roll the dice and recast the roles and bring the characters back, long term.

20 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I think Reinholt was an interesting case in that sometimes his performances could be complex and brilliant, whereas at other times, he looked detached and bored. So many people from AW and OLTL acknowledged he was difficult to work with, but if he were able to reign in some of his bad behavior, I would have enjoyed seeing what colors he could have brought to Alan Spaulding. I certainly would have taken a gamble on him over Pilon.  If Reinholt and McKinsey had ended up playing Alan and Alex at the same time, that would have been...awesome!

 

 

You did not direct that question to me, but personally, I would say no. His morose, listless Ed did not generate sparks with anyone. Well, maybe Rachel Miner to a degree. I could be biased because I always wanted Mart Hulswit back in the role, but Simon just never seemed to fit.

Regarding Reinholt and McKinsey playing siblings...I completely agree. Again, after all these years, Reinholt was someone I had never, ever considered for the role of Alan until someone asked me out of the blue a few years ago. The more I thought about it, the more I wondered if it could have worked. I admit, Reinholt was uneven, but sometimes I wondered if it was who he was acting in a scene with, or if he was actually invested in the material that was written for him.

Regarding Simon, you know I'll agree with you on that one . I really was trying to figure out who Simon had any chemistry with. Even when he was first on with Ellen Dolan, it always seemed like Dolan was striving to make that relationship interesting.

19 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Thanks for that article. I thought Ryder was a bad writer for TGL, but it's always interesting to hear TPTB talk about their plans.

 

Gail Kobe always spoke about bringing Mike and Hope back to Springfield, however, based on fans' displeasure over their absence. I'm almost certain the quote is in Schemering's book. 

Yes, that you for finding that article, @robbwolff. I admit, reading it doesn't instill confidence that they even knew what they would even do with Hope and/or Mike should they have brought them back to Springfield.

8 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Pilon was a very weak recast; I would have preferred Alan to be off-screen entirely than to watch Pilon in the role. 

@vetsoapfan, what would you have thought if TGL had eventually tried George Reinholt in the role of Alan Spaulding. I could definitely see parallels between how Reinholt played Steve Frame and Bernau played Alan Spaulding. Someone a few years ago had posed that question to me, and I never thought of how well Reinholt might have done in the role. By the 1980's, Reinholt looked a bit different (as could be seen in his return for Another World's 25th Anniversary in 1989), but I think he would have been fascinating to watch. The role of Alan might have allowed Reinholt to go a bit darker than he was allowed to do with Steve Frame. I know at the time Reinholt had sworn off of acting, but I now ponder what that would have looked like, had he been able to portray Alan.

On 3/23/2021 at 8:44 AM, Mitch said:

I think a Nola/Ed pairing had potential..did Brown and Simon have chemistry? She could light a fire under dour Ed and Ed would ground her. Actually..Nola as new kooky matriarch made a weird kind of sense...McTavish had good ideas but then she would screw them up.

Honest question, @Mitch: did Simon have any chemistry with anyone other than Ellen Parker? After I read your comment above, it made me wonder if Simon really had any true chemistry with anyone...?

3 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

Stewart confuses me so much, LOL. Any actor his age would be thrilled to be front burner in a triangle. But I guess if the actors weren't thrilled with each other ... Maybe Don was just getting burned out. I'm glad he appreciated Hollen/Trish. I love her. I kinda feel like Mike/Amanda would have made more sense just to piss Alan off, LOL. But both were a little too young for him. 

 

I have to admit a lot of what could have been sounds better than what came. I'm guessing they eventually shifted the War of the Roses-esque story to Alan and Reva. It worked at first with Christopher as Alan but with Pilon it didn't work. 

 

It's a shame we lost Stewart (more-so the Mike character) and Roussel. I also think they didn't seem to have any idea what to do with Rebecca Hollen as Trish, who could have easily been a Hope recast too.

 

Amanda Spaulding was a missed opportunity too. I refuse to acknowledge Toby Poser's version. I would have done something different with her.

 

I notice soaps were more ... resistant back then to recasting and instead seemed to try and create new characters to fill that spot on the canvas, often leaving me wondering why they weren't just a recast of a more pivotal role. 

 

Several characters never really existed past the 70s/80s, really. LOL.

 

Bert's passing would have been the best time to bring Hope back. I do agree A-M's rapid aging made it difficult to fit Hope in. I still would have done it, but I can see why they hesitated and didn't bother. I don't think there was any excuse in the 90s or 00s though. But I think there was a time where they didn't think audiences cared about "old characters". 

 

Sigh. I will never understand getting rid of O'Rourke and Justin. Especially when you have Stewart with one foot out the door. Guess he freed up some money for newbies like Dr. Jim Reardon (likely his younger replacement)

 

I feel like by the time the 90s rolled around Ross became a catchall for Justin/Mike and you didn't really "need" them. I could see that argument being made. "Why bother when we have Ross"? Wheeler was dumb as hell to take him off contract.

That exact question about Stewart was asked in TGL thread! Some have speculated that he was actually burned out after 16 years, and wanted to make a change. To be fair, once he was fired, he promptly relocated to the west coast to try his luck there. He appeared briefly as a fill-in for Nick Coster as Lionel Lockridge in 1985. I don't think he appeared in any soap after that? I have heard from others that Stewart felt a bit shielded because of his popularity, and was able to subtly dictate how the show could/should use him. Mike Bauer had really been a supporting/anchor player from 1982 to 1984, so maybe Stewart had gotten used to that role? From what little I've gleamed from Pam Long's comments, Mike would have been front and center in story for a least a year, if not more.

Here's what I would have loved to have seen play out in 1984 to 1986 from Alex/Mike/Lillian:

Mike ends up following Alex to Barbados and discovering Brandon alive (late 1984).

After Barbados, Alex wants to rekindle her romance with Mike, but Mike is still dating Lillian (late 1984/early 1985).

Bert passes away peacefully in her sleep. Mike stops dating Lillian, wanting some time to himself to reevaluate his life. Hope returns to Springfield (recast, likely), with A-M cast in the tried and true tradition of "Boarding School" for Bert's funeral (spring 1985).

Alex, both feeling sorry for Mike due to Bert's passing, but also wanting a way to get back into Mike's good graces, hires Hope (before she can consider returning to NYC) to redecorate the Spaulding mansion (giving Hope both gainful employment and an opportunity to further eliminate Alan's presence from her life). Mike and Alex interact because of this. Lillian continues to give Mike space, but sees right through Alex's scheme (summer/fall 1985).

Mike comforts Alex after Lujack is killed, and this leads to their romance rekindling (winter 1985/early spring 1986).

Mike decides he's ready to commit again, and asks Alex to marry him. Alex is elated to have some happiness in her life after losing Lujack, and wants to marry Mike as soon as possible, leading to a summer wedding (late spring 1986).

On the day of wedding, Mike and Alex are horrified as their wedding is interrupted by the return of none other than...Alan Spaulding, back from the dead (summer 1986)!

That's how I would have plotted it, anyway! 

11 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

It still infuriates me, and bogles my mind, that Kobe and Long were permitted to cripple TGL so completely. Did NO ONE at P&G understand the show, understand the audience, or give a damn?

I think you might have been the one to point this out to me, but didn't P & G want the Bauers eliminated as the core family as early as 1981? I thought Hulswit commented somewhere on this shortly after he was let go in?

I do remember that Doug Marland confirmed that P & G wanted "fresh" and "new" (younger) faces on TGL to cater to the younger audience. Marland was able to both introduce younger characters who were - at the same time - anchored to established characters on the show, along with keeping those established characters rooted in a storyline, even if they weren't the front burners.

Once Potter was gone and Kobe took over, I have a feeling Kobe wasn't as tied to history as her predecessors were, so she was open to completely revamping the show. As far as ratings went, that revamp started off well in early 1984 when the show finally hit #1, but it didn't last.

On 3/22/2021 at 9:43 PM, vetsoapfan said:

 

No show can sustain itself with only one beloved, tentpole, recognizable character. The fact that Long and Kobe did not understand this boggles the mind. No soap fan wants huge, sweeping turnovers in the cast overnight. We want and depend upon seeing a variety of familiar faces over time. It's comforting and keeps us involved.

 

While I loathe how Long initially helped decimate the show, I will give her credit for the comments she made in one interview. Regarding all the fantasy/sci-fi crap she had inflicted on TGL, she said that in the end, she realized it was not the way to go, and it was "better to get real." It shocked the heck of me when she remarked, "I'd like to see one of the original characters, Meta Bauer, appear. She had so much happen to her." That gave me a temporary burst of hope that the show might honor its past and start improving, but that was not to be. Long departed as head writer, and the scribes that followed her were even weaker than she was. The mid-to-late 1980s were a wasteland in Springfield. Meta did not reappear until, what, 1996?

 

Gail Kobe was also quoted as saying (something like), "Writing the Bauers out of the show proved highly unpopular with the audience, so don't be surprised to see Mike and Hope written back into the story."

 

More BS, alas.

I honestly wish that Pam Long had the opportunity to bring Meta Bauer back to Springfield. I really believe that Long would have written well for the character. And you are very correct, 1985 to 1988 were definitely a wasteland. When Zaslow and Garrett returned in 1989, I started watching again full time.

Also, was that Kobe quote just lip service to the viewers? Someone once told me that although Kobe said that, she never really intended on doing it.

On 3/19/2021 at 10:04 PM, KMan101 said:

 

As someone who is currently binging some classic 80s GH on youtube, 1984 seems like a steep decline from 1980-1983.

 

I about died seeing how blunt they were about Don Stewart leaving. It's spot on. They were clearly on the quest for "hot and young" and I'm assuming they thought they could kill two birds with one stone by snagging Richard Van Vleet as Ed (making Ed more of a mix of Mike and Ed).

 

On the other hand though, wasn't Stewart all pissy about being paired with ladies of his own age instead of younger? But still, I believe they probably pushed him out.

 

Makes me really scratch my head why they dumped Tom O'Rourke as Justin (was it to push "hot new Jim Reardon"?). 

Stewart was definitely fired by Kobe, allegedly due to his resistance to Mike Bauer's involvement in the Alexandra/Mike/Lillian triangle, which would have essentially put Mike Bauer back into a front burner storyline. From the conversations from TGL thread in this forum, along with other input I've found, I guess Stewart was always resistant to whomever he was potentially being paired with (Jackie, Elizabeth, Jennifer, etc.). It seemed he liked Rebecca Holland (Trish Lewis), but he thought that Trish was too young for Mike. There was also Renee Dubois (Deborah May) in late 1979, who had chemistry with Stewart, but Renee was killed by Roger. In fact, in 1981 Doug Marland brought May back to TGL in a different role to be paired with Mike, but that role never stuck. Then in 1984, Pam Long wanted to write for Mike Bauer, so she made Mike part of a love triangle with Alexandra (the sister of his on-again/off-again nemesis, Alan), and Lillian, and the issues from that triangle would have an effect on Beth/Lujack. But, apparently Bev and Don did not get along well, so Stewart was resistant to the storyline. Kobe decided to fire Stewart by the end of the summer in 1984.

And IMHO, TPTB never got the Ed casting right once they fired Mart Hulswit from the role. I never understood why Hulswit was never asked back during the times that Simon or the character of Ed was out of Springfield. Maybe he was difficult to work with, but I've never heard anyone confirm that.

Firing O'Rourke was a huge mistake on Kobe's part, especially after the well-written paternity reveal in 1983, after a 6 year (in real time) secret being kept on the show. The audience was never given an opportunity to see how the Phillip/Justin/Alan dynamic would have changed. 

On 3/23/2021 at 4:16 AM, KMan101 said:

Pennock was awful as Justin.

 

Mike, Justin and Hope are three glaring absences for me throughout the years. It seemed so crazy not to tap into them (really tap into them). I guess they figured they had Ed "why do we need Mike?" and they had Hope's son so why do they need her? Instead it should be, we have A-M, we NEED Hope. But nope.

 

Though, after Nola's messy return, sometimes I'm ok with characters being 'left in the past' LOL under certain regimes. Who the heck knows the damage that would be done. It's sad because Nola easily writes herself. They seemed to just want Lisa Brown as Nola again and didn't really have a plan. It didn't help that Lisa Brown and Justin Deas had no chemistry (IMO). And wasn't Nola also supposed to be paired with Ed and Peter Simon wasn't a fan? (But what did he think of the Eve pairing? LMAO)

 

Trish was definitely too young for Mike. I liked him with Lillian and Alex but I can't say he had fire chemistry with them. He feels kind of checked out towards the end of his run. Justin/Alex could have written iteself ... Justin had so many opportunites. Sigh. 

Agreed on Pennock. I loved him in other roles, but he really didn't fit Justin at all.

As far as never bringing back Hope, I still say the reason we never saw her again after 1983 was because of Alan-Michael. Once they SORAS-ed A-M to 18 in 1987, it made bringing back Hope awkward. When Hope left Springfield in 1983, she would have still been in her late 20's, I think. Therefore, a recast would have to be more age appropriate. If that was the case, the whole May/December dynamic of Hope/Alan would have been lost (at least in 1987). Hope really should have been brought back in 1985 or 1986, ideally at the time that Bert's death would have been acknowledged on-air. That way, A-M could have been aged a bit more slowly (well, as slowly as allowed on soaps). I wish that Roussel would have stayed in 1983, because it looked like Long was setting up Alan and Hope for a "War of the Roses" scenario.