7 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I think Days was intelligent until 1983. 

 

7 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

But I think Days of Our Lives from 1965-1982 was excellence! 

 

7 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I agree the last year DAYS was written well was 1982 under Pat Falken Smith.

I always point out Days as being an interesting case in soap history. Started as a Bill Bell show but became known for the supercouple era and Reilly era.

@Reverend Ruthledge and @vetsoapfan I take it you weren't fans of supercouple Days and Reilly Days.

3 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I also thought Rita Lakin and (particularly) Rick Edelstein wrote their soaps quite well, and they are not spoken about a lot, either. While the hacks always stand out in our minds, we've had many unheralded, quality scribes in daytime TV as well.

I'll start with Susan Bedsow Horgan, both as a HW/staff writer (who set up the field for Marland at ATWT and married off Bob and Kim) and as an EP who backstopped Linda Gottlieb and carried on with her strong material and house style at OLTL for two more key years.

She's never gotten enough credit IMO.

Edited September 9Sep 9 by Vee

3 hours ago, kalbir said:

I always point out Days as being an interesting case in soap history. Started as a Bill Bell show but became known for the supercouple era and Reilly era.

Yes, the show later became known for the super-couple and Reilly material, but whether that was to DAYS' credit or to its detriment is open to debate. The once intelligent, sophisticated and adult soap was vastly altered to the point of being unrecognizable.

3 hours ago, kalbir said:

@Reverend Ruthledge and @vetsoapfan I take it you weren't fans of supercouple Days and Reilly Days.

Depending on how the super-couple material was handled, I could deal with it to an extent, but I loathed the Reilly era with every fiber of my being. It's what finally me turn away from DAYS in disgust.

3 hours ago, Vee said:

I'll start with Susan Bedsow Horgan, both as a HW/staff writer (who set up the field for Marland at ATWT and married off Bob and Kim) and as an EP who backstopped Linda Gottlieb and carried on with her strong material and house style at OLTL for two more key years.

She's never gotten enough credit IMO.

I think giving the unsung heroes of daytime the recognition and credit they deserve is long overdue. I'll add Nancy Curlee to this list, although at least she has been acknowledge before, more than the likes of Lakin and Edelstein.

21 hours ago, Vee said:

Oh, I think she knew. I think she just didn't want to spell it out for me because I was so young. But she let me watch that and a lot of other gritty stuff with her (China Beach, Prime Suspect) and it was not a secret what happened when the truth came out.

I think there's a distinct reason why "true crime" skews so female lol. 

51 minutes ago, te. said:

I think there's a distinct reason why "true crime" skews so female lol. 

It's interesting that up to 80% of true crime viewers are said to be women.

It's...curious that up to half of the audience watching gay porn is also said to be straight women, LOL._🤔🫢

10 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I would say that the first catfight between Krystle and Alexis (in the lily pond) was earned. The endless follow-ups, not so much.

Wasn't the first catfight between Alexis and Krystle in Alexis' studio when Krystle found out that Alexis was responsible for her miscarriage?

29 minutes ago, I Am A Swede said:

Wasn't the first catfight between Alexis and Krystle in Alexis' studio when Krystle found out that Alexis was responsible for her miscarriage?

Yep. That was earnt. The lily pond catfight was actually kind of random.

3 hours ago, I Am A Swede said:

Wasn't the first catfight between Alexis and Krystle in Alexis' studio when Krystle found out that Alexis was responsible for her miscarriage?

You are absolutely right. I had just rewatched the following clip on youtube, too, so I don't why I had a brain glitch and referred to the lily pond scene. Probably because that fight might be the most infamous.

Anyway, yes, the studio battle was the one I should have said felt well earned

I apologize for the "senior moment."

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

You are absolutely right. I had just rewatched the following clip on youtube, too, so I don't why I had a brain glitch and referred to the lily pond scene. Probably because that fight might be the most infamous.

Anyway, yes, the studio battle was the one I should have said felt well earned

I apologize for the "senior moment."

 

 

 

I remember watching this in my early teens and being shocked at how obvious the body doubles were. This, btw, is the only "catfight" between these two that made any kind of sense to me. I mean... Alexis deliberately caused Krystle to fall and be dragged from the horse and then lose her baby. It was such an unspeakable act of evil in my opinion. To cause an abortion just because you are jealous and spiteful of someone. Pure Devil. 

Their later catfights became more and more flashy and meaningless and by the end... it was idiotic camp that had swayed so much from the original idea of the conflict between these two that it looked like two drag queens in a Rupaul show battling it out. 

BTW, @vetsoapfan I forgot to tell you that I'm enjoying every post you make in this topic. You talk about the genre and the different aspects of it so eloquently, that I can only listen and take notes. That's the type of content that makes this forum so rich and important. Thank you!

If there's one thing I've always been curious about it's how people reacted to Allison just walking out of Peyton Place. To me it's something that's just haunting - we just don't know what happened to her, though there's certainly heavy implications that Jack Chandler killed her and Rachel knew what happened.

51 minutes ago, te. said:

If there's one thing I've always been curious about it's how people reacted to Allison just walking out of Peyton Place. To me it's something that's just haunting - we just don't know what happened to her, though there's certainly heavy implications that Jack Chandler killed her and Rachel knew what happened.

Peyton Place is a show I have been meaning to watch for a very long time. It's on the top in my list of things I have to do. I've heard that it's a MASTERPIECE in it's entirety. 

Edited September 9Sep 9 by Maxim

34 minutes ago, Maxim said:

I remember watching this in my early teens and being shocked at how obvious the body doubles were.

ITA. The clear usage of body doubles in stunts was something we all noticed and usually kvetched about, but accepted as just par for the course. Monica Quartermaine fell down the stairs in the Q mansion once, on GH, and we could easily tell the stunt woman was wearing knee pads (they were HUGE, LOL). It was hilarious.

34 minutes ago, Maxim said:

This, btw, is the only "catfight" between these two that made any kind of sense to me. I mean... Alexis deliberately caused Krystle to fall and be dragged from the horse and then lose her baby. It was such an unspeakable act of evil in my opinion. To cause an abortion just because you are jealous and spiteful of someone. Pure Devil. 

Their later catfights became more and more flashy and meaningless and by the end... it was idiotic camp that had swayed so much from the original idea of the conflict between these two that it looked like two drag queens in a Rupaul show battling it out. 

Yes, and that cartoonish, drag-queen type catfight ended up permeating every soap. I didn't find it effective or character-driven most of the time; such fights generally looked contrived and tacky to me.

NOW, that being said, in this scene from AW in 1973 (which starts around the 42:09 mark), I was hoping to see a real, knock-down-drag-out brawl, with both Alice and Aunt Liz opening up a fresh can of whup-a$$ on Rachel's sorry behind. That conflict had been five years in the making, and Rachel getting her comeuppance  would have been well-motivated, deserved, and soooo satisfying. (This scene is one that actually made me scream, "You BITCH!!!" at the television, LOL).

Also, in the 1970s on OLTL, Dorian Cramer (later Lord) had accidentally killed a patient, but Larry Wolek ended up being accused of the crime. Dorian was eventually outed as the culprit and her reputation in town was destroyed. She insanely held a grudge against Larry (!!!) for her downfall, and thirsted for vengeance for years.

Cut to Viki's murder trial in 1979, when Karen Wolek broke down on the witness stand and confessed to having been a prostitute. A triumphant Dorian took this as her golden opportunity to finally get back at Larry, Karen's husband. With a member of the board in tow, Dorian marched over to the hospital and proceeded to change the locks on Larry's office door, in preparation to have him kicked out and removed from his position as chief of staff.

Karen found her there and demanded to know what the hell Dorian was doing. Dorian crowed, "I am removing your husband from this hospital. He has been asking for it for a long, long time!"

Karen silently lowered her head, like a bull setting its sights on its target, and replied in a deadly-calm voice, "So...have...YOU!"

Then she pounced on Dorian and let her have it. The sounds of Dorian's shocked, "Oh! Oh! OHHHH!" were  exhilarating! I started jumping up and down and cheering. It was great!

34 minutes ago, Maxim said:

BTW, @vetsoapfan I forgot to tell you that I'm enjoying every post you make in this topic. You talk about the genre and the different aspects of it so eloquently, that I can only listen and take notes. That's the type of content that makes this forum so rich and important. Thank you!

OMG!

Thank you so much for the kind words.😚

I'm humbled and blushing.🫠

You know whom to come to, if you ever need a kidney!

1 hour ago, te. said:

If there's one thing I've always been curious about it's how people reacted to Allison just walking out of Peyton Place. To me it's something that's just haunting - we just don't know what happened to her, though there's certainly heavy implications that Jack Chandler killed her and Rachel knew what happened.

That was such a smart move by PP to have Alison just disappear. It drove story for years after.

Surprisingly, daytime never used that twist when a popular actor decided to leave-they either recast, killed them off or gave them a lame excuse to depart.

1 hour ago, Maxim said:

Peyton Place is a show I have been meaning to watch for a very long time. It's on the top in my list of things I have to do. I've heard that it's a MASTERPIECE in it's entirety. 

Well worth watching for the cinematography alone.

2 hours ago, te. said:

If there's one thing I've always been curious about it's how people reacted to Allison just walking out of Peyton Place. To me it's something that's just haunting - we just don't know what happened to her, though there's certainly heavy implications that Jack Chandler killed her and Rachel knew what happened.

It was such a bizarre way to write her out. She just wandered around town for a while and then headed up a long road and disappeared from Peyton Place forever.

People theorized to me, upon watching her final episode, that perhaps Allison had had some sort of break with reality and was in a fugue state. I'd point out the lack of build-up to such a scenario, but the character did seem "off" in her final moments. It was quite haunting, and the original series' never providing any definitive answers or closure left everyone I know frustrated.

The daytime soap Return to Peyton Place, the 1977 TV movie Murder in Peyton Place, and the 1985 TV movie movie Peyton Place: The Next Generation all gave different resolutions to the Allison question. I'd say that The Next Generation's explanation was the best one that could have been done, considering the respect it gave to the character and the sweet flashbacks used.

Edited September 9Sep 9 by vetsoapfan