On 10/12/2025 at 11:35 PM, Paul Raven said:

With Y&R the first thing that needs to happen is to move away from the business stories and focus again on relationships. Given the dire budget, scaling down the scope of the stories would make sense.

They need to drop a few characters eg Phyllis who have outlived their usefulness and concentrate on newer characters with more potential. 

eg Nick and Sharon married and parents to Faith/Noah etc with the younger characters as the focus.

When Y&R began there were only a few characters above 40 yr old. Now most are in their 50's and beyond.

It's great to have vet performers but they need to move to a more supporting capacity, stepping into the spotlight when appropriate, instead of coming up with dumb stories to keep them at the forefront.

ITA with all of your points.

Y&R needs to move away from the dry, tedious boardroom plots and return to the lush romance and interpersonal relationships that brought the show its ratings success in days of yore. Do the majority of viewers even care about corporate takeovers and infighting? In a secondary capacity, perhaps, but not at the forefront of the show.

Like all the remaining soaps, Y&R could easily clean house, and do away with some actors/characters who have long since run their course.

Viewers are strongly attached to their vets, but having the bulk of their characters well over 50 leaves Genoa City feeling lopsided. TPTB have failed for years to nourish and replenish the younger generations and keep a solid balance of youth and maturity intertwined on the canvas.

Its past time for Victor, Nikki, Jack, etc., to move into supporting-character status and for the writers to develop viable, charismatic romantic leads upon whom to build rich and emotion-based drama.

With savvy PTB in charge, Y&R could regain its former glory.

I know I’m maybe too young and people hated the Mob years of GH but I have to say they gave us one of the best written stories there!

the Metro court hostage was epic from start to finish and was a real masterpiece. 
I mean I hated that we lost Stuart Damon/Alan Quartermaine but at least he went out with a bang and didn’t had to witness the Ron/Frank years with his character lol They would’ve ruined Alan.

B&B: Taylor’s return from the dead in 1994! I was crushed as a little boy when my beautiful favorite Taylor died and was so stunned and in shock when she was revealed to be alive as Princess! Gosh that was my favorite time and kept me on the edge of my seat. Of course some would say it didn’t aged well and was cheesy and cringe but for me I will always love that era. 
 

 

 

On 9/4/2025 at 6:22 PM, Vee said:

We've recently been blessed with near-full runs of many ABC soaps from the '80s on (particularly the critical and long-lost Linda Gottlieb/Michael Malone transiition period at OLTL in the early '90s), and quite a lot of EON, GL, Y&R, etc. But the Marland era still being spotty is just a tragedy to me. I got to see a great deal of '86, but when certain key sections go missing it stings.

I also bemoan the spotty episodes from Marland's early run on ATWT.  But we're actually quite lucky: most of 1986 is pretty much available on YouTube -- except for the late-May episode when Frannie's memory returned while testifying on the witness stand during Kim's trial for killing Douglas Cummings.  And the September episode where Kim gives birth to Chris.  Those are the two Holy Grails for me.  And while we don't have the immediate build-ups to the climax of the Sabrina storyline, most of 1987 is also available.  Thank goodness for those ATWT fans with VCRs (still a rarity back then).  Because of their efforts, we can still enjoy that classic period today. 

On 9/7/2025 at 1:22 AM, vetsoapfan said:

The Wendy Riche/Claire Labine era of GH was the last time any soap truly attained the level of greatness, IMHO. BJ's heart saga and Stone's battle with AIDS are exactly what I think of when  I think of soap masterpieces. So many moments still resonant to this day. I'll never forget Felicia finding out what was happening, runni ng upstairs to find Bobbie, and then sinking to the floor shrieking/crying, "Not Barbara Jean! Not Barbara Jean's heart!"

I wholeheartedly agree about the Labine-era being the last great period on a soap.  Which is sad since that was in the early 1990s.    

On 10/29/2025 at 6:11 PM, AMCOLTLLover said:

I know I’m maybe too young and people hated the Mob years of GH but I have to say they gave us one of the best written stories there!

the Metro court hostage was epic from start to finish and was a real masterpiece. 
I mean I hated that we lost Stuart Damon/Alan Quartermaine but at least he went out with a bang and didn’t had to witness the Ron/Frank years with his character lol They would’ve ruined Alan.

I am one of the people who loathe when soaps focus heavily on the mob and glorify degenerate criminals as romantic leads, so I had no interest in watching GH at the time. That being said, I do know numerous fans who have praised the Metro Court stuff.

On 10/29/2025 at 6:11 PM, AMCOLTLLover said:

B&B: Taylor’s return from the dead in 1994! I was crushed as a little boy when my beautiful favorite Taylor died and was so stunned and in shock when she was revealed to be alive as Princess! Gosh that was my favorite time and kept me on the edge of my seat. Of course some would say it didn’t aged well and was cheesy and cringe but for me I will always love that era. 

I noticed a major drop in quality on B&B after Bill Bill stepped down as head writer in 1993 and his son took over. I was sorely disillusioned by the soap medium by that point (except for Claire Labine's GH and Nancy Curlee's TGL), so I missed the Taylor-returns story as well.

15 hours ago, MarlandFan said:

I also bemoan the spotty episodes from Marland's early run on ATWT.  But we're actually quite lucky: most of 1986 is pretty much available on YouTube -- except for the late-May episode when Frannie's memory returned while testifying on the witness stand during Kim's trial for killing Douglas Cummings.  And the September episode where Kim gives birth to Chris.  Those are the two Holy Grails for me.  And while we don't have the immediate build-ups to the climax of the Sabrina storyline, most of 1987 is also available.  Thank goodness for those ATWT fans with VCRs (still a rarity back then).  Because of their efforts, we can still enjoy that classic period today. 

It's natural for die-hard fans to clamor for more and more vintage episodes to come to light, but you are 100% right: we are truly lucky that so much classic material is already out there. I started video trading (by exchanging Beta and VHS tapes via snail mail) long before Youtube and other sharing site existed. The mountain of soap goodies we have today is like a cornucopia to me! And most often, the quality is at least acceptable if not downright good.

15 hours ago, MarlandFan said:

I wholeheartedly agree about the Labine-era being the last great period on a soap.  Which is sad since that was in the early 1990s.    

Yep. I sound like a broken-record and crusty curmudgeon when I say this, but overall, the soap genre has been in the toilet for 30 years. How OLTL, TEON, AW, TGL and ATWT ended up will always be painful for me.

11 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Yep. I sound like a broken-record and crusty curmudgeon when I say this, but overall, the soap genre has been in the toilet for 30 years. 

I think the real issues began in the late 1980s with Iran-Contra, Nielsen people meters, and the 1988 writers strike and everything culminated in the aftermath of OJ. A good number of shows were not in a good place creatively in June 1994.

4 hours ago, kalbir said:

I think the real issues began in the late 1980s with Iran-Contra, Nielsen people meters, and the 1988 writers strike and everything culminated in the aftermath of OJ. A good number of shows were not in a good place creatively in June 1994.

I agree that the problem exploded in the 1980s, but some soaps like ATWT and Y&R were able to hold out and continue producing good material. But by the mid-1990s, most (if not all) of the soaps had collapsed, and daytime became a wasteland.

11 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I agree that the problem exploded in the 1980s, but some soaps like ATWT and Y&R were able to hold out and continue producing good material. But by the mid-1990s, most (if not all) of the soaps had collapsed, and daytime became a wasteland.

Agreed. By the mid/late 1990s, all the heavy-hitter soap creators had retired or passed on (Bill Bell, Doug Marland, Agnes Nixon, Harding Lemay, Clare Labine).  They were the handful of writers who could demand autonomy -- and get it.  With them gone, the suits took over and subsequent headwriters had to get approval for every little plot and subplot. 

30 minutes ago, MarlandFan said:

By the mid/late 1990s, all the heavy-hitter soap creators had retired or passed on (Bill Bell, Doug Marland, Agnes Nixon, Harding Lemay, Clare Labine).

It should be noted that Nixon and Lemay were mentored by Irna Phillips. Lemay mentored Marland. Bill Bell mentored his replacement Kay Alden. 

That kind of thing didn't exactly end. I'm sure other HWs that came after them nurtured up-and-comers, and the networks had writing programs. But the classic way of writing soaps was over by the mid-90s and most of the people who knew how to write that way were gone. 

@DeeVee I think it is worth a slight correction for the record:

In the interview with We Love Soaps (“Part Four”, August 2009) Lemay says:

“Doug Marland had his infamous ‘Marland’s Rules.’ (…) I trained Doug actually. Very interesting writer. There was a very very dark underside to all his writing. Good characters though. I think everything you write creates it’s own rules. … You can’t have rigid rules. … And that was one of Doug’s problems as a writer. The people who wrote with him would often be confronted with Doug’s rigid idea of what was right and what was not right.”

Edited November 7, 2025Nov 7 by j swift

39 minutes ago, j swift said:

@DeeVee I think it is worth a slight correction for the record:

In the interview with We Love Soaps (“Part Four”, August 2009) Lemay says:

“Doug Marland had his infamous ‘Marland’s Rules.’ (…) I trained Doug actually. Very interesting writer. There was a very very dark underside to all his writing. Good characters though. I think everything you write creates it’s own rules. … You can’t have rigid rules. … And that was one of Doug’s problems as a writer. The people who wrote with him would often be confronted with Doug’s rigid idea of what was right and what was not right.”

I often marvel that Lemay actually called Marland's writing "dark."  Meaning darker than his own writing, I assume.  Although I was a huge Lemay fan, I truly can't imagine a soap opera darker than his Another World.  However, I've discussed this with other soap fans who agree with Lemay.  So I guess it just depends on how one defines dark.  

@Tisy-Lish  I'm intrigued by the critique of Marland's managerial style.  We rarely get an objective insight into the writing process of soaps.  So, I resonated with the idea of the writer chaffing over the restrictive nature of Marland's supervision. 

As I recall, in the memoir, Harding Lemay had a similar opinion of his phone calls with Irna Phillips.  He enjoyed hearing her knowledge of the history of the show, but lamented her lack of collaborative spirit (a self-acknowledged generous interpretation of their relationship in the book).

Edited November 7, 2025Nov 7 by j swift

1 hour ago, j swift said:

 I think it is worth a slight correction for the record:

In the interview with We Love Soaps (“Part Four”, August 2009) Lemay says:

“Doug Marland had his infamous ‘Marland’s Rules.’ (…) I trained Doug actually. Very interesting writer. There was a very very dark underside to all his writing. Good characters though. I think everything you write creates it’s own rules. … You can’t have rigid rules. … And that was one of Doug’s problems as a writer. The people who wrote with him would often be confronted with Doug’s rigid idea of what was right and what was not right.”

Not sure how that's a correction. He says right there he trained Marland.

If you read Lemay's memoir, he did not agree with Irna Phillips about many things, but he did praise her as an excellent teacher who gave him the basics he needed to write the genre.

No artist is going to simply copy their mentor. And mentor and students can and do end up rivals.

I have to say I preferred Lemay to Marland as a writer, but don't agree with Lemay's harsh criticism here. IMO, if more soap writers today used Marland's rules, soaps would definitely improve.