Another way P&G dropped the ball was their convenience store. P&G didn't even provide product. They bought, probably retail, everything their little shop sold. Wheeler was determined to show they could push product within the context of the show.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

Again, look at an old episode of SFT or LOL from the early 1950's.  Their sets are literally just darkly painted flats with doors and window frames suspended on piano wires.  Yet, they look 1000% more convincing than anything Ellen Wheeler and her crew cooked up in Peapack.  That's how you know you're working with people who know what the [!@#$%^&*] they're doing.

This is so true. I'd also point to Dark Shadows which has held up for audiences even today. They obviously didn't have much in terms of budget but it didn't matter. They were largely successful at everything they did because they had creative people in charge who knew what they were doing.

47 minutes ago, Chris B said:

This is so true. I'd also point to Dark Shadows which has held up for audiences even today. They obviously didn't have much in terms of budget but it didn't matter. They were largely successful at everything they did because they had creative people in charge who knew what they were doing.

Nostalgia notwithstanding, there were many things that happened on those sets that could only be called embarrassing. Many amusing stories are told about those sets & that very low tech. Those people were making it up as they went. A very similar thing to what we've been discussing. And, a similar result.

58 minutes ago, Chris B said:

This is so true. I'd also point to Dark Shadows which has held up for audiences even today. They obviously didn't have much in terms of budget but it didn't matter. They were largely successful at everything they did because they had creative people in charge who knew what they were doing.

I'd say there was plenty of wonkiness on Dark Shadows. My all-time favorite would be when Kate Jackson was gagged, the gag clearly came untied, and she had to hold it in her mouth with her teeth as the sides were flapping away.

It just didn't really matter because the cast and writing did enough to make you care and they also took a lot of chances, going all across time, had all kinds of horror content, etc. 

That wasn't the case with GL's last few years (some might say they had horror content, admittedly).

Of course there were accidents, as there were on all of the soaps that were live or live-to-tape but overall I think Dark Shadows does hold up well from a production standpoint. Especially the Black and White episodes which I feel added to the atmosphere and hid some of the imperfections.

It's not just Dark Shadows but I think all of the soaps from the 60s and 70s hold up incredibly well.

46 minutes ago, Chris B said:

Of course there were accidents, as there were on all of the soaps that were live or live-to-tape but overall I think Dark Shadows does hold up well from a production standpoint. Especially the Black and White episodes which I feel added to the atmosphere and hid some of the imperfections.

It's not just Dark Shadows but I think all of the soaps from the 60s and 70s hold up incredibly well.

DS' black and white run does hold up well. I don't think the show suited color. Only in the last year do they finally begin dressing the ladies for color. 

I think most of them hold up, although we've not seen a great deal. I know Denise Alexander talked about how dated GH was in production (as mentioned on here by some fans), and you can see that is the case from what's available.

Dark Shadows has lasted over 50 years in syndication and on streaming despite no successful revivals or reboots, and despite (and perhaps somewhat because of) its wonky budget, FX and onscreen production foibles. Any fan of the show (including several of us here) knows its issues very well.

As DRW points out, Peapack GL cannot say the same. It's because they couldn't put story or characters across the same way. Though I do think a better GL deserves a shot on the air today.

 

Edited February 6Feb 6 by Vee

12 hours ago, Vee said:

Dark Shadows has lasted over 50 years in syndication and on streaming despite no successful revivals or reboots, and despite (and perhaps somewhat because of) its wonky budget, FX and onscreen production foibles. Any fan of the show (including several of us here) knows its issues very well.

As DRW points out, Peapack GL cannot say the same. It's because they couldn't put story or characters across the same way. Though I do think a better GL deserves a shot on the air today.

 

Only success Dark Shadows had after their ending were the big finish audios tbh. 

Edited February 6Feb 6 by AMCOLTLLover

13 hours ago, DRW50 said:

DS' black and white run does hold up well. I don't think the show suited color. Only in the last year do they finally begin dressing the ladies for color. 

I think most of them hold up, although we've not seen a great deal. I know Denise Alexander talked about how dated GH was in production (as mentioned on here by some fans), and you can see that is the case from what's available.

The thing is you can hear "given their circumstances" and, of course that is only fair. However, I do not see such latitude given to more contemporary instances. To sum up, people tend to go easy on shows from the past but go hard on newer shows. DS & GL are perfect examples of this.

14 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I'd say there was plenty of wonkiness on Dark Shadows. My all-time favorite would be when Kate Jackson was gagged, the gag clearly came untied, and she had to hold it in her mouth with her teeth as the sides were flapping away.

It just didn't really matter because the cast and writing did enough to make you care and they also took a lot of chances, going all across time, had all kinds of horror content, etc. 

That wasn't the case with GL's last few years (some might say they had horror content, admittedly).

Here, I would completely disagree. What you're talking about basically is how much love was put into the effort. Neither Jami or Otalia would be what they are without a ton of love. Those two stories were stellar.

14 hours ago, Vee said:

Dark Shadows has lasted over 50 years in syndication and on streaming despite no successful revivals or reboots, and despite (and perhaps somewhat because of) its wonky budget, FX and onscreen production foibles. Any fan of the show (including several of us here) knows its issues very well.

As I've said in the past, part of the joy of watching DS is simply watching the cast and crew get through each episode by the skin of their teeth.  It wasn't live, but it was taped as if it was, and as a result, it is exhilarating.

2 hours ago, AMCOLTLLover said:

Only success Dark Shadows had after their ending were the big finish audios tbh. 

I think the number of revivals or near-revivals they had is a show of their success (and even though I wasn't a big fan, the primetime version probably would have stayed on longer if not for the Gulf War preemptions).

Edited February 6Feb 6 by DRW50

3 hours ago, AMCOLTLLover said:

Only success Dark Shadows had after their ending were the big finish audios tbh. 

Yes, that's why my post explicitly said above that there were no successful revivals or reboots. And despite that it has remained in the public consciousness popular in syndication and streaming, unlike what has become of GL. And that's at least partly because it was so seat of your pants production-wise.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I think the number of revivals or near-revivals they had is a show of their success (and even though I wasn't a big fan, the primetime version probably would have stayed on longer if not for the Gulf War preemptions).

I loved the primetime reboot & agree that it was the circumstances that sank it without it really having a shot.

19 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I loved the primetime reboot & agree that it was the circumstances that sank it without it really having a shot.

I loved it as well...NBC screwed up by having it on a Friday night, but it was NBC's big demo winner despite the total audience, the expense of the show was too much.  I do think it might have had no where  to go as it burned so much story in its first half season, it should have been a miniseries. I wonder where you can stream it as it does kind of "end" (Vicki back in the present, safe but knowing Barnabas's secret.)

And of course it had our own Ellen Wheeler in her most demanding role, as poor Phyllis, waking up just to face a fate that most GL fans would like to send her to! (kidding..I wish no harm on anyone!)

 

32 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

I loved it as well...NBC screwed up by having it on a Friday night, but it was NBC's big demo winner despite the total audience, the expense of the show was too much.  I do think it might have had no where  to go as it burned so much story in its first half season, it should have been a miniseries. I wonder where you can stream it as it does kind of "end" (Vicki back in the present, safe but knowing Barnabas's secret.)

And of course it had our own Ellen Wheeler in her most demanding role, as poor Phyllis, waking up just to face a fate that most GL fans would like to send her to! (kidding..I wish no harm on anyone!)

 

Not streaming anywhere. But there is a full curated playlist on YT. 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCozubTY58cfWO-LEhHF99GKk4OANfwvI

Besides Ellen Wheeler also AW's Joanna Going who played Lisa Grady.