18 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I will always believe the one-two punch of keeping Todd around and the sexual abuse story with Viki were big mistakes that cast a shadow over OLTL's remaining time on the air. 

I believe by that time ABC owned RH, so you'd think they could have made the move if they wanted to. I don't think RH suited an hour. I think she was right that no soaps needed to be an hour.

Claire Labine was a wonderful writer, but there are so many mistakes made on the show starting in 1978 and 1979, partly through her and Mayer, partly through ABC. 

It was either Ryan's Hope or GH and of course once GH went to an hour it became one of the biggest shows on tv. I think it was one of those things where you had to strike when the iron was hot. To launch a new soap and be as successful as Ryan's Hope was, it needed to happen early on. Once GH became the focus everything changed.

for Doug Marland, on ATWT, over-exposing the character of Lily. To the point where Lily's birthday became a town event for years.

In general, beating the "in therapy" trope to death on GL and ATWT. 

This topic is fascinating to me... and I'm here reading all the responses... researching things. So fascinating! Maybe the most shocking to me is the Luke and Laura stuff. Truly vile. 

2 minutes ago, Maxim said:

This topic is fascinating to me... and I'm here reading all the responses... researching things. So fascinating! Maybe the most shocking to me is the Luke and Laura stuff. Truly vile. 

Lesson learned: don't bully an 18-year-old actress, because one day they'll out live you and spill all the tea.

Just now, j swift said:

Lesson learned: don't bully an 18-year-old actress, because one day they'll out live you and spill all the tea.

Lesson learned - Don't' bully anyone. Ever. 

Agreed! 

31 minutes ago, Chris B said:

Something I realized after reading the recent oral history on Ryan's Hope is that Claire Labine had more to do with it's demise than I originally thought. Yes ABC could be a disaster at times, but so could she. She had a habit when leaving the show and returning of throwing everything out, even popular stories and characters to try and bring the show back to her original vision. She couldn't evolve. 

Her biggest mess up is in the early 80s when the show was booming in the ratings and ABC wanted to expand the show to an hour. She turned them down and GH ended up going to an hour and the rest is history. It's crazy to think how different things could've been had she agreed to that. Of course the show was ultimately displaced by Loving and put in a timeslot it could never be successful in. Had she allowed them to expand the show to an hour that would've never happened.

She was so against it. Pete started it & thought he wanted it & then regretted it after they went to an hour & fought against going to 90 minutes & ultimately quit over it. Agnes told Pete he was crazy & that she'd never do it. ABC offered her studio space, which was coveted & help on money for more actors & she let herself be persuaded. Bill Bell was just as against it as Labine was & CBS said they were going to do it with him or without him so he could pick. So Pete got in via ignorance & with Agnes they used the carrot & with Bell they used the stick. The change was more beneficial to the network than the show so they were seriously motivated. Susan Flannery left DAYS over it. She was that against it. 

 

10 minutes ago, j swift said:

Lesson learned: don't bully an 18-year-old actress, because one day they'll out live you and spill all the tea.

Mhmm. And then ABC Daytime were shady AF really screwing it to Francis some more, re: AMC.

53 minutes ago, Chris B said:

It was either Ryan's Hope or GH and of course once GH went to an hour it became one of the biggest shows on tv. I think it was one of those things where you had to strike when the iron was hot. To launch a new soap and be as successful as Ryan's Hope was, it needed to happen early on. Once GH became the focus everything changed.

 

40 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

She was so against it. Pete started it & thought he wanted it & then regretted it after they went to an hour & fought against going to 90 minutes & ultimately quit over it. Agnes told Pete he was crazy & that she'd never do it. ABC offered her studio space, which was coveted & help on money for more actors & she let herself be persuaded. Bill Bell was just as against it as Labine was & CBS said they were going to do it with him or without him so he could pick. So Pete got in via ignorance & with Agnes they used the carrot & with Bell they used the stick. The change was more beneficial to the network than the show so they were seriously motivated. Susan Flannery left DAYS over it. She was that against it. 

 

Ultimately I think the expansion to 30 minutes was damaging to the genre. The fact that Another World agreed to be a 90-minute scripted series 5 days a week is insane.

I like 30 minutes because there's less filler in an episode, it keeps you from having to expand the cast massively to fill the hour, and the writers only have to pen out half the dialogue.

9 minutes ago, Planet Soap said:

Ultimately I think the expansion to 30 minutes was damaging to the genre. The fact that Another World agreed to be a 90-minute scripted series 5 days a week is insane.

I like 30 minutes because there's less filler in an episode, it keeps you from having to expand the cast massively to fill the hour, and the writers only have to pen out half the dialogue.

I agree, totally. And, I'm laughing because you sound exactly like Bill Bell & Susan Flannery BITD.

I happen to believe they knew what they were speaking of. 

I think a classic bad move by Agnes Nixon on AMC, that was repeated elsewhere as well, was not setting up the next generation until it was way too late.

Erica not having a child earlier, rather than being saddled with a two insta-kids by later writers, was poor planning.  Similarly, AW's Felicia, and other leading female characters were burdened by these odd circumstances of forgetting that they had given birth decades earlier, and then those offspring magically appeared in town (often with a chip on their shoulder).  As a result, the multigenerational aspects of the stories never seemed organic, to me.

Not every female character needed a child, but a younger sister, or a niece, would've sufficed to set up a family tree before these women were middle-aged.

Edited November 18, 20241 yr by j swift

According to Tom Lisanti's book, it was in 1977 when ABC approached Labine and Mayer about expanding RH to an hour. It was shortly after AMC expanded to an hour. ABC proposed expanding RH to an hour and giving it a better timeslot. I assume RH would have aired in the 3:00 to 4:00 p.m. timeslot. I guess this was around the time that ABC was considering canceling GH. Had Labine and Mayer accepted ABC's offer, I wonder what would have aired in the 12:30 to 1:00 p.m. timeslot.

5 hours ago, Liberty City said:

 

And storyline-wise, turning Laura & Luke into a love story. Never should have happened.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion....but I'm of the opinion that GH was correct in telling daytime's most famous and highest rated storyline.

Claire Labine had an amazing start to GH that lasted almost 18 months. This came to a crashing halt by overlapping the cancer and AIDS stories. While both were well written and acted, combined they totally sucked the energy out of the show. Even "fun" stories at the time such as Lois' wedding felt like they had an air of melancholy hovering over it.

9 minutes ago, bongobong said:

Everyone's entitled to their opinion....but I'm of the opinion that GH was correct in telling daytime's most famous and highest rated storyline.

Okay, perspective. The highest Nielsen rating I have ever seen listed was a 16.5 for SEARCH FOR TOMORROW back when daytime was the golden goose paying for primetime to experiment. 

 

Agnes Nixon washed her hands of OLTL too soon.

I always found it problematic that Bill Bell created a black maid character and named her Mamie of all things 🤦🏽‍♂️