3 hours ago, Planet Soap said:

Agreed about Nikki, she was a I need a man housewife for a loooong time and grew snotty by the 90s. 

Nikki was the OG ho turned housewife that became snooty lady of the manor. In the 1990s she really needed to be knocked down a peg or two.

1 hour ago, Liberty City said:

The bigger mistake, to me, was the premature killing off of John Abbott. That was purely a plot-driven piece by Lynn Marie Latham & John Griffith.

John Abbott death marked the end of Y&R as we knew it. During the classics, I skipped all the episodes after John Abbott death.

I think killing off John hurt more because Ashley and Jack were both so depleted as characters by that point - the character himself had been treading water for years. 

 

On 12/8/2024 at 12:15 PM, kalbir said:

Nikki was the OG ho turned housewife that became snooty lady of the manor. In the 1990s she really needed to be knocked down a peg or two.

John Abbott death marked the end of Y&R as we knew it. During the classics, I skipped all the episodes after John Abbott death.

Yeah that was really dumb, but I never mentioned it because the "well-regarded executive producer" William J Bell didn't do it. That was under the Lynn Marie Latham era I believe.

4 minutes ago, Planet Soap said:

Yeah that was really dumb, but I never mentioned it because the "well-regarded executive producer" William J Bell didn't do it. That was under the Lynn Marie Latham era I believe.

Now you've hit on what I find missing from these lovely threads! Those egregious things the ones we love to hate have done! Y&R had Latham's shock & awe. So many soaps had JFP's inserting herself into the writing plus firing people like mad & then spending all the money she meant to save. I could go on but I won't. 

23 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I think killing off John hurt more because Ashley and Jack were both so depleted as characters by that point - the character himself had been treading water for years. 

 

At the time and now I still feel there was way more mileage in Gloria being his wife and not his widow. The dynamic of him just truly loving her and his children not being able to stand her and machinations with the house and Jabot would have been better. It would have made Gloria far more tolerable for me if John was still there.

Even as bad as things got before Latham with Jack Smith, you still had an idea that the show was being structured for the future as well as what was airing. But since Latham Y&R is no longer meticulous, it’s messy and rarely in a fun way.

Edited December 10, 20241 yr by titan1978

3 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

At the time and now I still feel there was way more mileage in Gloria being his wife and not his widow. The dynamic of him just truly loving her and his children not being able to stand her and machinations with the house and Jabot would have been better. It would have made Gloria far more tolerable for me if John was still there.

I think it had already been done better with Jill, but I see your point. His death aftermath was poor. 

I also would have recast Jack over immediately killing John. Bergman's best was gone.

6 hours ago, titan1978 said:

At the time and now I still feel there was way more mileage in Gloria being his wife and not his widow. The dynamic of him just truly loving her and his children not being able to stand her and machinations with the house and Jabot would have been better. It would have made Gloria far more tolerable for me if John was still there.

Even as bad as things got before Latham with Jack Smith, you still had an idea that the show was being structured for the future as well as what was airing. But since Latham Y&R is no longer meticulous, it’s messy and rarely in a fun way.

As bad as the LML era was, she was probably the best post bell EP, unless you give that to Maria Arena Bell. And that isn't saying much. 

What was it with John Abbott and picking terrible wives? Dina, Jill and then Gloria. Jessica was perhaps his best woman. John would definitely have been better off with Mamie, but maybe that wouldn't have made for interesting television.

Bad move by WJ Bell: Missed character interactions.

I like that '90s Y&R characters interacted in orbits, and everyone didn't know everybody. That way when two characters interacted things felt like a fresh opportunity.

Certain characters would have been gold if they interacted. Don't know if it ever happened but Victor going to battle with Stephanie Forrester in a crossover would have been great. Sheila going up against Victor would have been interesting television.

Edited December 11, 20241 yr by Planet Soap

1 hour ago, Planet Soap said:

Victor going to battle with Stephanie Forrester in a crossover would have been great. 

During the Jabot/Newman crossover Bradley didn't give us a scene with two of his father's greatest creations Victor and Stephanie. Seeing Victor and Stephanie in a scene together would be like watching two gladiators facing off and sizing each other up, each one recognizing the other as someone not to mess with, plus Stephanie would not dare to bitch slap Victor.

A Victor and Stephanie scene would've been so epic and Eric Braeden and Susan Flannery would've given us a master class in acting. Susan Flannery herself even said in an interview it was a missed opportunity that Stephanie and Victor did not interact during the Jabot/Newman crossover.

Edited December 11, 20241 yr by kalbir

1 hour ago, Planet Soap said:

Victor going to battle with Stephanie Forrester in a crossover would have been great.

Honestly, I will say this: the brief scenes we had of Brooke Logan & Victor Newman in the '90s were a thing of magic, and I kind of wish that had been able to be explored a bit more, with continuous crossovers exploring a love affair of some kind between the two of them.

On 12/6/2024 at 5:54 AM, titan1978 said:

I agree about Nikki and Jack having a child that should have survived. The natural fighting over loyalty and rivalries with Nick and Victoria would have been excellent.

I disagree about Phillip though. It put Nina in a power position because of their child and drove story between Nina, Jill, and Katherine for a few years. I don’t think Phillip being alive added as much as Nina 

That's true. Nina drove many storylines after Phillip's death (1989). But after David Kimble's death and the end of Kay-Jill-Rex triangle (1991), Jeanne Cooper was left without anything considerable to do on the show. Kay was happily married to rex, Jill was trying to tie the knot with Victor (eventually he rejected her and she resumed her relationship with John, that led to a new wedding and Billy's birth) and Nina was having great sex with hot Ryan McNeil (they eventually became a couple and got married).

In 1993 Jeanne Cooper was about to leave YR and move to ATWT, but Douglas Marland's sudden death changed her plans.

When Kay Alden became headwriter in 1998, things improved for Kay and Jill. They had again something in common. The feud about the ownership of the mansion and then about Billy and Mac's love. 

Edited December 11, 20241 yr by AlexGrimaldi

5 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Honestly, I will say this: the brief scenes we had of Brooke Logan & Victor Newman in the '90s were a thing of magic, and I kind of wish that had been able to be explored a bit more, with continuous crossovers exploring a love affair of some kind between the two of them.

I can only imagine Nikki vs Brooke! But Diane proved to be a formidable opponent during this time.

8 hours ago, AlexGrimaldi said:

In 1993 Jeanne Cooper was about to leave YR and move to ATWT, but Douglas Marland's sudden death changed her plans.

Does anyone know which role she was expected to play?  I know JC leaving Y&R for ATWT would have been HUGE for WT, but for the life of me, I can't imagine how she might have fit on that canvas.  I mean, it was weird enough seeing Terry Lester on there after seeing him on Y&R and SaBa (and interacting with Elizabeth Hubbard, Mary Kay Adams and Richard Bekins) - not to mention, the thought that Jane Elliot came very close to joining the show as well before Douglas Marland's death changed everything.

What I would have loved to have seen was Y&R's Jill possibly hooking up with B&B's Thorne or Ridge, and Kay warning Stephanie to keep her sons away from that tramp, lol.

Edited December 11, 20241 yr by Khan

Just now, Khan said:

Does anyone know which role she was expected to play?  I know JC leaving Y&R for ATWT would have been HUGE for WT, but for the life of me, I can't imagine how she might have fit on that canvas.  I mean, it was weird enough seeing Terry Lester on there after seeing him on Y&R and SaBa (and interacting with Elizabeth Hubbard, Mary Kay Adams and Richard Bekins) - not to mention, the thought that Jane Elliot came very close to joining the show as well before Douglas Marland's death changed everything.

I hadn't heard about Jeanne moving to ATWT. I imagine she would have gotten involved in some of the business stories - maybe part of the Grimaldi entourage? Either that or tied to Neal and Royce. 

(imagine her as Orlena)

I have a hard time buying that Jeanne Cooper was going to ATWT. I can see her floating it or threatening to move.

I have heard the JE story about ATWT before but I've forgotten who she was supposed to play.

Was it that Jane was joining As the World Turns or planned to join The Soul Survivors?