29 minutes ago, Khan said:

To this day, I don't understand why "Coach" appealed to so many.  Neither the cast nor the writing was ever funny.

Coach had very similar issues that Wings had. Both shows were decent enough timeslot hits (Coach after Roseanne, Wings after Cheers) both were at least mildly entertaining to watch at least in the early years, yet neither show proved they could stand on their own once they got moved around to other timeslots and eventually as changes occurred to both shows (Thomas Hayden Church leaving Wings, Coach changing settings from Minnesota to Florida) both shows became unremarkable and collapsed. 

Wings was an awesome show and definitely way funnier than Coach could ever have dreamed of being lol

17 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Boy Meets World was definitely the last classic ABC TGIF show as well as probably the most realistic of the lot. Yet upon rewatch it hasn’t aged well either. At least this and the first few seasons of Sabrina anchored the TGIF line-up for a few years before ABC shelved it.

Nah MacGyver died in its time-slot, which was ultimately awkward to begin with as a lead in to Monday Night Football, MacGyver would get bumped and/or pre-empted for its Mountain and Pacific time slots. Meanwhile NBC and CBS flourished on Monday nights in the late 80’s and 90’s with strong counter programming for the most part.

The same thing happened a few years later when ABC thought it it would be cute to air Coach on Monday nights, have it backfire and move Coach back to airing after Roseanne. 

 

17 hours ago, dragonflies said:

Wasn't MacGyver moved to a new timeslot too? I remember WTB and MacGyver all ending the same year 

You're both right actually. Only the final episode of MacGyver aired on a Saturday, following the last episodes of Who's The Boss and Growing Pains.

On 2/28/2024 at 7:54 AM, te. said:

"Counterprogramming to try and sabotage another network

Not to derail this thread but this reminds me of when Fox tried to sabotage Central Park West with a second hour of Beverly Hills 90210 head-to-head w/ Central Park West premiere and a new Melrose Place head-to-head w/ Central Park West episode 2.

17 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Sabotage and Tank Job that backfired @kalbir?

For the 1997-98 season CBS decided to air Diagnosis Murder at 9:00ET/8:00CT opposite Seinfeld. Seinfeld was obviously #1 for that season, but DM made shockwaves coming in at #26 and was also a top #30 hit the following season as well.

1996/97 CBS moved Diagnosis Murder from Friday 9 pm to Thursday 8 pm. That looks like a tank job yet CBS still kept Diagnosis Murder. Remember too that CBS was in another primetime mess era from Fall 1994 until Spring 2000 so they kept a good number of shows that showed little to no growth because not much was working as far as new shows go. CBS was really in no position to have any tank jobs so alot of their scheduling moves were probably fill space on the schedule.

3 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Both shows were decent enough timeslot hits (Coach after Roseanne, Wings after Cheers) both were at least mildly entertaining to watch at least in the early years, yet neither show proved they could stand on their own once they got moved around to other timeslots and eventually as changes occurred to both shows (Thomas Hayden Church leaving Wings, Coach changing settings from Minnesota to Florida) both shows became unremarkable and collapsed. 

Yup. They were so-called "satellite" hits. Shows that were in proximity of an actual huge hit and they fed off it - I think comedies also had an easier time to retain viewers because at worst they're mildly amusing to spend an half hour (while maybe doing something else), especially if you're not going to switch the channel anyway. NBC's Thursday murder night of Friends / Satellite Comedy / Seinfeld / Satellite Comedy / ER was a factory plant for these sort of "false" hits.

 

What's funny about Coach is that they were going to reboot it a decade or so ago, but realised once giving it a direct-to-series order that it wasn't going to work. Allegedly the stars got paid for the entire episode order (I believe it was ten episodes), but I think only a pilot was filmed, if that.

I think "Diagnosis: Murder" suffered from the same problem as did "Murder, She Wrote."  In both cases, the network underestimated the type of demographic that the show drew, simply because the lead actor was of a certain age.  It's like CBS totally forgot that, thanks to Nick at Nite and "Mary Poppins," even younger viewers knew and enjoyed watching Dick Van Dyke, just as younger people liked watching Angela Lansbury on MSW because they might have known her from "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" and, later, "Beauty and the Beast."

4 hours ago, te. said:

What's funny about Coach is that they were going to reboot it a decade or so ago, but realised once giving it a direct-to-series order that it wasn't going to work. Allegedly the stars got paid for the entire episode order (I believe it was ten episodes), but I think only a pilot was filmed, if that.

IIRC - and it's been eons, so forgive me - they actually were in the middle of taping the pilot/first episode (in front of a studio audience?) when either Craig T. Nelson or Barry Kemp stopped taping, realized it wasn't going to work and called off the rest of the series, lol.

God, when I think about the number of mediocre-to-awful shows that passed through NBC's Must-See TV lineup over the years....

1 hour ago, Khan said:

IIRC - and it's been eons, so forgive me - they actually were in the middle of taping the pilot/first episode (in front of a studio audience?) when either Craig T. Nelson or Barry Kemp stopped taping, realized it wasn't going to work and called off the rest of the series, lol.

That would be hilarious, but I thought they filmed the pilot and NBC saw it and immediately called it off. Here's TV Insider's version.

Edited March 3, 20241 yr by Vee

8 hours ago, te. said:

 NBC's Thursday murder night of Friends / Satellite Comedy / Seinfeld / Satellite Comedy / ER was a factory plant for these sort of "false" hits.

 

4 hours ago, Khan said:

God, when I think about the number of mediocre-to-awful shows that passed through NBC's Must-See TV lineup over the years....

NBC got away with scheduling garbage shows at Thursday 8:30 pm and 9:30 pm during the Seinfeld/ER/Friends era that would finish in the Top 10 because both CBS and ABC were in their primetime mess eras. 

4 hours ago, Khan said:

I think "Diagnosis: Murder" suffered from the same problem as did "Murder, She Wrote."  In both cases, the network underestimated the type of demographic that the show drew, simply because the lead actor was of a certain age. 

So true, and I think CBS also had an identity crisis of what it wanted to be during this era. For every Central Park West, High Society, and that terrible Andrew Dice Clay sitcom, we’d get a show like a New York News with MTM and Madeline Khan or a show like Orleans with Larry Hagman, a show CBS went all in on. CBS actually moved Orleans to try to save it by giving placing Orleans in a 9PMET spot thinking people would be familiar with a Larry Hagman drama in that slot 😂

2 hours ago, Vee said:

That would be hilarious, but I thought they filmed the pilot and NBC saw it and immediately called it off. Here's TV Insider's version.

Too bad that didn’t happen to that Mad About You revival that, no one, I mean one asked for. And of course it didn’t work.

For the record I thought Bill Fagerbakke was probably the only good thing about Coach I liked and that’s being kind lol. Wings was indeed funnier and watchable until 1995 or so. 
 

21 minutes ago, kalbir said:

 

NBC got away with scheduling garbage shows at Thursday 8:30 pm and 9:30 pm during the Seinfeld/ER/Friends era that would finish in the Top 10 because both CBS and ABC were in their primetime mess eras. 

Ah I know we’ve examined the CBS mess era in the past, and while 97-98 was the nadir they managed to come in at number #2 while ABC was dealing with a different sort of animal at the time. Maybe soon we’ll examine the disaster that was the Jamie Tarses (RIP) era that caused ABC to plummet to #3. 

12 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

ABC was dealing with a different sort of animal at the time. Maybe soon we’ll examine the disaster that was the Jamie Tarses (RIP) era that caused ABC to plummet to #3. 

1996 ABC was sold to Disney. ABC primetime mess era started 1995/96 when Roseanne fell out of the Top 10 and ended 1999/2000 with the breakout success of Who Wants to be a Millionaire. Monday Night Football and Home Improvement were really the only hits ABC had in that era.

Attempted sabotage.

When Fred Silverman came on board at NBC the first show he got on the air was Diffrent Strokes and he cannily placed it Fri @8 up against Donny and Marie  and Wonder Woman, 2 weak shows.

So ABC puts a new ep of Happy Days in a 'special event' Friday slot to blunt Strokes. It worked. Strokes had a lowly 25 share, HD a 34. But viewers came back to NBC in the following weeks and DS was a much needed hit for them.

12 hours ago, Vee said:

That would be hilarious, but I thought they filmed the pilot and NBC saw it and immediately called it off. Here's TV Insider's version.

Thank you, @Vee, for the clarification.  Maybe I'm remembering a different show, lol?

9 hours ago, kalbir said:

ABC primetime mess era started 1995/96 when Roseanne fell out of the Top 10 and ended 1999/2000 with the breakout success of Who Wants to be a Millionaire. Monday Night Football and Home Improvement were really the only hits ABC had in that era.

Yup!  "Millionaire" came along at the right time for ABC.  Unfortunately, I think the show became a crutch of sorts for the network, who scheduled it on so many nights that, I think, the public became sick of it and wanted it gone.

9 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Too bad that didn’t happen to that Mad About You revival that, no one, I mean one asked for. And of course it didn’t work.

I feel like the only ones who truly enjoyed MAY (both the original series and the revival) were Paul Reiser and Helen Hunt.  Everyone else couldn't be bothered.

47 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Yup!  "Millionaire" came along at the right time for ABC.  Unfortunately, I think the show became a crutch of sorts for the network, who scheduled it on so many nights that, I think, the public became sick of it and wanted it gone.

Yep by 2002 after shoving Millionaire on like every night lol, Millionaire was gone off the network and into syndication, while ABC fell into a another mess era where it became the first Big 3 network to rank at #4 behind Fox. ABC’s fortunes wouldn’t turn around until the 2004-05 season when finally caught a break with multiple big hits. 

51 minutes ago, Khan said:

I feel like the only ones who truly enjoyed MAY (both the original series and the revival) were Paul Reiser and Helen Hunt.  Everyone else couldn't be bothered.

LMAO especially probably Reiser. I think the show was wayyy too NYC centric which is why it failed in syndication and just wasn’t funny overall. I like Hunt as actress but I was puzzled by all those endless Emmy wins.

Mad About You (like Everybody Loves Raymond) was one of those shows that was treated like the pinnacle of situation comedy as a medium during its run (or at least the latter half in Mad's case) and is now largely forgotten in syndication/streaming since. I think in MAY's case that had to do with two well-known stars and particularly Helen Hunt becoming a movie star in its later seasons, and the goodwill they had. How Raymond got the same hype I'll never understand.

Edited March 3, 20241 yr by Vee

MAY was a fairly good show overall, at least to me lol