1 hour ago, Khan said:

The more I watch old clips of Jaime Lyn Bauer as Lorie and read about Lorie's years in Genoa City, the more I'm convinced Lorie was Bell's all-time best creation.  Simply put, she was a character who worked in so many different ways.  You had the sibling rivalry with Leslie that also fed into a triangle with Brad Eliot, the generational conflicts with Stuart and Jennifer, the revelation of her true bio dad and near-incest with Bruce Henderson, the star-crossed love with Lance, the triangle with Lance and Lucas, the QUADRANGLE with Lance, Lucas AND Leslie, the custody drama over Brooks, the "mother-in-law from hell" psychodrama with Vanessa, the corporate intrigue (mixed with sexual attraction) with Victor....  I mean, that girl had her feet in so many different kinds of storylines; yet, Bell never lost track of who she was at her core, and she remained a sympathetic character throughout all of it.

Lorie was introduced as the vixen daughter of the main upper class family but by the end of her run, would we have considered her more of an anti-heroine?

Edited December 3, 20232 yr by kalbir

I also remembered his Long Term Storylines With BIG Payoffs! 

On Days there Was The Revelation of Mike's Real Paternity! 8 years to Reveal,

There Was also The debacle with Julie's Child

On Y&R There Was The Reveal Of Brooks Prentiss' Paternity, It Took 5 years for Lance to find out Him and Not Lucas was the Boy's Father!

There Was Marge, the build up for her and Kay's Switch was of several months!

The Battle for The Chancellor State, It took 23 years To Happen! Phillip said he left something to secure Jill and The Baby's Future when he was dying, But Jill Only Found it in 1998!

On B&B There was The Angela Story, it actually Was build up from the beginning taking about 1 year and a Half to Really Happen! But Stephanie's occasional visits happened for a long time!

7 hours ago, kalbir said:

Lorie was introduced as the vixen daughter of the main upper class family but by the end of her run, would we have considered her more of an anti-heroine?

For sure! I think she was Really mellowed after Finding Out Stuart Was NOT her Biological Father!

15 minutes ago, Joseph said:

I also remembered his Long Term Storylines With BIG Payoffs! 

On Days there Was The Revelation of Mike's Real Paternity! 8 years to Reveal,

There Was also The debacle with Julie's Child

On Y&R There Was The Reveal Of Brooks Prentiss' Paternity, It Took 5 years for Lance to find out Him and Not Lucas was the Boy's Father!

There Was Marge, the build up for her and Kay's Switch was of several months!

The Battle for The Chancellor State, It took 23 years To Happen! Phillip said he left something to secure Jill and The Baby's Future when he was dying, But Jill Only Found it in 1998!

On B&B There was The Angela Story, it actually Was build up from the beginning taking about 1 year and a Half to Really Happen! But Stephanie's occasional visits happened for a long time!

For sure! I think she was Really mellowed after Finding Out Stuart Was NOT her Biological Father!

I hear that alot about his stories. You could turn off for two years and come back and its the same story lol

7 hours ago, lucaslesann23 said:

I hear that alot about his stories. You could turn off for two years and come back and its the same story lol

THIS IS FAR from the truth. Most of the long stories are just hinted for years and small moments are added but as soon as the story really STARTS... It  does not go for years for sure. He is very fresh and dynamic writer.

23 hours ago, lucaslesann23 said:

I hear that alot about his stories. You could turn off for two years and come back and its the same story lol

I just got confused. I thought you must be talking about Bradley Bell, but, you mean Bill Bell? I have never heard that about him. Of course that is a criticism non-soap fans make about the whole genre & I do not find it to be accurate in general. 

 

 

 

The tortured hero, the scheming villainess, etc. One of the biggest changes in soaps was to the view of what is feminine & what the average woman does & is like. More women with jobs, or even careers (HER STORIES 128-129). Specifically in the '60s & mid-60s Bell & Irna considered attitudes toward working women. They imagined Mary Matthews reading THE FEMININE MYSTIQUE, etc.

 

I've been looking for this. Finally found it!

"The great lion of daytime television, Bill Bell." - Bill & Susan, the Hayeses

 

3 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

I've been looking for this. Finally found it!

"The great lion of daytime television, Bill Bell." - Bill & Susan, the Hayeses

 

🥰

Thanks for this topic.

Speaking for Y&R specifically:
1) Show structure: YnR was very easy to follow in the 90s because there was a select group of lead characters for which other characters orbited around (Victor, Lauren, Dru, Christine...) Because characters only existed in bubbles, and everyone didn't have connections with everyone, it was easy to keep track of who is connected to who. This unlike Douglas Marland's marvelous ATWT which boasted a large cast with connections all over the map.

2) Attention to Detail: look at the Sheila baby switch plot. Bell knew he had five days a week to fill so we got to see small but important details like Lauren setting up an insurance scheme in order to get Scott, Sheila and the baby's bloods to do a DNA test. We actually saw Sheila switch the babies and go through the process of switching birth tags, foot, and fingerprints. We saw doppleganger Marge go down to the bank to practice impersonating Katherine and forging her signature before taking her place. Meanwhlie, on the modern show, they said Cameron dug a tunnel to break into into the Newman ranch--- which was not shown. Bill Bell showed us Michael building a tunnel for days to break into Christine's apartment. Classic difference.

3) Story plotting: I like his ability to stretch stories out for years and let them have big payoffs. Jack & Jill's affair, her resulting divorce from John and fallout, spanned from 1983? to 1987. Bill didn't just write for the moment, his storylines had long-term implications. Stemming from the divorce in '86, Jill remains at Jabot today. Victor taking over Jabot lasted 10 years, and his reign finally ended in that dramatic Brad and Jack take over story! 

I also like that his storylines were consistent throughout a year. I can pick 1995 out of the lineup and know that I am automatically going to see Nick, Sharon and Matt Clark, or Nathan and Keesha be a constant thread. 

Edited December 8, 20232 yr by Planet Soap

13 minutes ago, Planet Soap said:

I like his ability to stretch stories out for years and let them have big payoffs.

And I mention one DAYS story that can not be said too many times & that is the paternity reveal of Mike Horton where the audience knew for 8 years before all of the players on the canvas finally learned. 

On 12/3/2023 at 11:34 AM, Khan said:

The more I watch old clips of Jaime Lyn Bauer as Lorie and read about Lorie's years in Genoa City, the more I'm convinced Lorie was Bell's all-time best creation.  Simply put, she was a character who worked in so many different ways.  You had the sibling rivalry with Leslie that also fed into a triangle with Brad Eliot, the generational conflicts with Stuart and Jennifer, the revelation of her true bio dad and near-incest with Bruce Henderson, the star-crossed love with Lance, the triangle with Lance and Lucas, the QUADRANGLE with Lance, Lucas AND Leslie, the custody drama over Brooks, the "mother-in-law from hell" psychodrama with Vanessa, the corporate intrigue (mixed with sexual attraction) with Victor....  I mean, that girl had her feet in so many different kinds of storylines; yet, Bell never lost track of who she was at her core, and she remained a sympathetic character throughout all of it.

He clearly loved writing for her. No wonder when she let it be known she would not renew her contract he reset the entire show and decided to reform the show around the expanded Abbott family.

On 11/27/2023 at 12:44 AM, titan1978 said:

I have described his style as cerebral and a bit chilly before on this board. It’s always been my impression, especially with Y&R in the 80’s and 90’s before he retired. The characters had emotions but something about the way the show was put together sometimes gave it a detached air. When I watch what little there is if his DAYS available I don’t feel the same way. But that’s the differences between the Horton family and the characters he drew from on Y&R.

EDIT: With an examination of his strenghts come an analysis of his shortcomings.

I totally get you @titan1978. Hard to explain it, but something about characters on OLTL or AMC for example, seems a bit more relatable than those on Y&R. I'd rather hang out with the people in Llanview than Genoa City.

I remember a scene on AMC of Liza explaing to Ryan what payola is. It's broad discussions like those, the organic nature of small talk and humor felt natural. With Y&R it feels like all dialogue is plot specific.

Speaking of dialogue, almost every character spoke in proper diction and vocabulary. When he tried to write slang for Dru, it sounded corny. 

Moreover, attempts at comedy felt awkward on Bell's Y&R. OLTL and DAYS are better at being funny. 

Edited December 27, 20231 yr by Planet Soap

24 minutes ago, Planet Soap said:

Moreover, attempts at comedy felt awkward on Bell's Y&R.

Which is ironic, because, I read somewhere that Bill Bell got his start in radio as a comedy writer.

Edited December 8, 20232 yr by Khan

3 hours ago, Planet Soap said:

Moreover, attempts at comedy felt awkward on Bell's Y&R. OLTL and DAYS are better at being funny. 

Comedy has never been one of B&B's strengths either. With the exception of the late, great Darlene Conley of course.

I think that's why I was drawn more toward the ABC soaps as a kid, and toward AMC and OLTL in particular.  Their shows were earthier and had more of a sense of humor.

At the same time, I loved watching ATWT and GL, because they seemed to know how to tell these wide-ranging stories that drew in a lot of characters at the same time.

Edited December 8, 20232 yr by Khan

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I think that's why I was drawn more toward the ABC soaps as a kid, and toward AMC and OLTL in particular.  Their shows were earthier and had more of a sense of humor.

At the same time, I loved watching ATWT and GL, because they seemed to know how to tell these wide-ranging stories that drew in a lot of characters at the same time.

OMG, give me an umbrella story on a P&G soap & just watch as everything & everyone becomes involved.