General Hospital: May 2023 Discussion Thread

[Vee]

They tried briefly but very poorly - Faith had a tortured romantic past with Mfundo Morrison's Justus. It was as bad as it sounded, and by then Faith had already dry-humped men while killing them with her thighs, tried to murder half the town, etc.

Faith was there to be a heavy and a fetish object, nothing more. It's just chance that Cynthia Preston played the hell of it (allegedly it put her in consideration for Tina at OLTL during that period, which should've happened). She still works, but I'd love to see her back on a soap. I'd even accept an excuse to have a scarred Faith alive and making trouble for a little bit on GH, better her than Olivia (or as they now insist on constantly calling her due to the other Olivia's presence, "Liv") Jerome again. There's a lot of parallels to be made and discussion to be had onscreen and off about how Ava - who came on with almost as dark and dangerous an introductory period as Faith - has survived but Faith did not.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Vee

[titan1978]

That period of GH is such a love letter to misogyny.

All this talk about Faith and Alcazar just reminds me how Guza would create a worse mobster than Sonny or Jason for short periods of time, then move on to the next.

Alcazar, Faith, Manny, Claudia and Anthony, The Balkan…am I forgetting anyone else?  It was like 10 years of this kind of storytelling.  Some were more fun than others.

Edited May 13, 2023 by titan1978

[Vee]

We used to chronicle the misogyny day in and day out on TWOP back in those days. It just got worse and worse in 2003-2005 or so. You could never have gotten some of that onscreen at 3 PM today, and I think part of it was just part and parcel of the very crass TV landscape with the Bush-era 2000s. That element toned down somewhat once Pratt was gone, but the repetitive, Toho Studios Godzilla-esque 'now here's a bigger mobster!' cycle remained. As I said a week or two ago, at least in the 2000s they tried to differentiate them and make unique characters some of the time vs. the various anonymous (to me) heavies of the late '90s/early 2000 period. But it was still way too many.

To this day I have no idea what happened to Manny Ruiz, or his 'good' identical twin who I think was a priest. I said it recently but Guza clearly just wanted to hire Robert LaSardo as his character from nip/tuck and that's all Manny really was. He came back 3-5 times like Wile E. Coyote and it got so ridiculous. By the time they got to "Karpov" nobody was taking the mobster cycle seriously. The Balkan story was a nice idea on paper but the writers were running on fumes, and it was a waste of poor Adrienne Barbeau. The very gothic Zaccharas at least felt lived in and had texture and layers to their backstory that could've powered more varied story outside just the Sonny sphere, but that got worn out quickly too. (And the less said about the Garin Wolf period with Tracy's 'wacky' marriage to Anthony the better.)

[carolineg]

GH was so dark back then.  For me, I really checked out after Sonny shot Carly in the head while she was giving birth.  I know that's not really the same point you all are making, but that was just so unnecessary and violent.   I really just remember that time period for all the characters getting killed off and/or shot.  No one just left town quietly. 

@VeeInteresting you see parallels with Ava/Faith.  I have always likened her to Claudia.  Running through tons of evil deeds until you have no place to go and just have to kill her off.

[Vee]

I also checked out for a while after that, or rather right after the PC Hotel fire. The shooting was so disgusting. I had been ride or die for Maurice and Sarah's Sonny and Carly and I hadn't disliked Mo and Tamara together early on, but that cured me of S&C forever. I had been merely rubbernecking at the disaster for most of '03 (which honestly felt like it lasted five years) but I was super into Carly and Lorenzo because it was clear that had gotten away from the show and out of its control in late '03/early '04, and the early build for them (mostly pre-shooting lol) was legitimately decent. But the hotel fire (and before that, the bizarre Sonny/Sam sword in the stone caper which... I don't even fully recall) was a hilarious farce. And after that it was clear the show was hitting a not even interestingly bad period, so I walked away until coming back in summer '05 to watch another trainwreck as I realized (before anyone else I knew, I might add!) that they were going for Sonny and Emily, and then the show completely imploded.

They all have a lot of similar characteristics. Mob queens who don't flinch. Maura was only originally supposed to be on for a few days (something I still don't understand). She did things early on that got the other two wasted. Ava has survived due to a different regime and a popular performer, moreso the different regime because both Cynthia and Sarah were popular. Ava has 'faced' her crimes in the past with various self-pitying themed episodes I didn't really buy into, but to see an actual mirror would be more intriguing for me because I think not too far deep down Ava is still absolutely that person.

[titan1978]

I just had to google Karpov and I still don’t remember that one at all.  And so was watching them because it was during the Kate storyline.

The Balkan was a waste of everybody. You had good actors there, Brenda, and the story was so lackluster. Even the boyfriend she showed up with and breaks up with was a waste.

[carolineg]

Yeah, that was the last time I had much investment in Sonny/Carly.  I did like them in the beginning and I did like TB/MB's chemistry a lot, but that shooting made the couple fall into an absolutely toxic situation that there is no coming back from.

I was always so confident the show was not going to do Sonny/Emily.  I heard the rumors and thought never.  I was so wrong.  I am glad the show never, ever, mentions it.   It really was a crazy move that had no impact on anything.  They killed her off anyway.

I tend to agree Ava should have more edge and I think it's still in her.   

It moved way too slow.   Brenda spent so much time in Italy waxing about her love for Sonny and not enough time doing anything.  Obviously, it probably started much better on paper and once Vanessa refused to play the Dante angle it got very bungled.  All we heard about was this terrible secret and it was the most anticlimactic thing ever.  It also made little sense for Suzanne to spend years infiltrating Brenda's circle to call Jason? Get her in PC where she is much safer?  I would love to see the original story outline and compare it to what it ended up being.  It always felt like there were massive rewrites there.

[Vee]

I will again defend some of Brenda's Italian interlude bc I thought it was interesting to ease us into showing her living a very different life. Of course that didn't last long because IIRC Sonny or Jason showed up very quickly, and Sonny was running away from all the horrible shít he'd done recently and I seem to recall Brenda excusing most of it at the time and enabling him. They also knew they were on a clock with VM and that she might not re-up, which she didn't, and they wasted some time. Now, my defense aside I also haven't watched any of that material in over ten years, so...

I can't fault Vanessa for intervening on some of it. I don't think anyone was really into hearing about her epic affair with Dante except for Guza, and I say that as someone who really likes Dante and thought they had chemistry. She had been promised Sonny and Brenda, the goods had been sold to their audience and she wanted it delivered. And I wasn't even a big Sonny/Brenda fan! But I think she was right to put her foot down and get that, because the subsequent wedding scenes and some of the dissolution of their actual marriage were to me some of both of the actors' best work, period, and probably the last great work that longtime writing team did. I think seeing them together as an older, supposedly more mature (lol) married couple was and is a new frontier, and forced the writers to do something different (briefly).

I think she still definitely has it tbh, pretty close to the surface these days as opposed to some of the soppier past times with Nik or with Matt Cohen's idiot character. She laced into Nikolas with beauty right before he 'died' and then she pretty easily disposed of his 'body' without hesitation. It's just something the writers keep flirting with and then trying to dance around.

I knew the moment they started sharing more scenes, then when she started babysitting the boys all the time that it was coming. It was the show's way to try to prove NL/Emily was ready for the big time and was now a mature female lead. People called me crazy. Folks said it again when I warned 'em after Howarth and Becky started sharing more scenes. They doubted his word!

He was a nobody. They were really running on fumes with Whack-a-Mobster at that point, and they also brought in the Zaccharas around the same time who had much more going for them.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Vee

[carolineg]

I have told you before that Brenda's return plays much better in edits than I remember.  It's not good, but there are good scenes and moments.  

The Italian Interlude plays out much longer onscreen because every single character is talking about Brenda as well.  I mean, I would talk about Brenda all day every day too, but I don't think I represent the entire GH viewing audience lol.

And, yes, Brenda handwaves all of Sonny's bad deeds immediately and is his apologist.  She actually says "that must have been so painful for YOU" in regards to Sonny shooting his own son and I knew we were in trouble.

I don't mind VM putting her foot down.  I have just always been curious where Guza was going to go with it.  The kid's Dante's, then what?  Where does Dante fit into the Balkan story now?  What happens when Alec turns up alive and Dante is a dad? What happens to Sonny/Brenda?  Lulu/Dante?  Will Carly's head explode in front of us due to these facts?  I don't think Sonny/Brenda getting married and divorced was the wrong move I just will forever want to know what the plan was.

 

You know I was suspicious when Emily was hired as Sonny's overgrown babysitter, but I still had faith the show wouldn't go there.  I think if there was a stronger actress playing Emily that had lights out chemistry with Mo there were some interesting beats to play there.  But it was NL and it was a failure. 

[BetterForgotten]

Oh god, even though Emily shouldn’t have been killed off, I still can’t stomach NL’s Emily in edits - acting and writing. That rape story was one of the most offensive ones I’ve ever seen, and I always hated how she always seemed to look down on the Q’s and what a Sonny/Jason apologist she spent her remaining time being.

I lived for Tracy calling her Monica’s “ungrateful orphan daughter.” 

Edited May 13, 2023 by BetterForgotten

[carolineg]

I actually find AT's Emily more obnoxious with the Q/Sonny/Jason stuff.  

NL just turned Emily into a regular, bland heroine, but Emily was annoying AF when Amber played her too.

[Vee]

In fairness, Natalia's Emily was much softer on the Qs than Amber's. But I still want to see Amber play the role once more, lol.

[BetterForgotten]

I think AT just had a more likeable presence and better chemistry with her co-stars than NL did. But yes, Emily was always an insufferable brat.

[carolineg]

Absolutely.  I think AT's Emily was supposed to be a bit of a brat too.  Also, looking back changes your perspective.  At the time I didn't think AT's Emily was that bad with the Jason stuff because Jason didn't have a ton of defenders in the beginning when he first had his accident.  Now watching it I want her to shut up about how awesome Jason/Sonny are.  When Emily first started her whole narrative about that Sonny/Jason were still outcasts though and it didn't bother me as much. 

But to your main point AT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NL as Emily lol

[AbcNbc247]

As long as Joss gets hurt, I'll be all for this storyline 

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