56 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Patricia Heaton is one of the most unlikeable actresses I've ever seen on television.

LOL she was pretty bad in the 90’s and 00’s, I’m still mad she was the one who did the crappy soap segment & montage for the terrible CBS at 75 special in 2003. God that was awful. The Middle worked out for her because she basically played herself (It also helped she also renounced the Republican talking points she use yammer around). 
 

Valerie Mahaffey is an actress I’ve always liked but I don’t think she ever found a stable role despite the steady work, recurring roles on Northern Exposure and Desperate Housewives. As for Hagerty I always will associate her with Airplane! lol.
 

Always found it odd Bloodworth-Thomason’s  other hit show at the time was Evening Shade, which was basically to me a southern version of Newhart with Burt Reynolds.

 

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

Patricia Heaton is one of the most unlikeable actresses I've ever seen on television.

I try not to let an actor's political or other beliefs cloud my opinion of them or their work.  However, in Heaton's case, I can't help but feel her conservative beliefs (which certainly clash with mine) literally ooze from her pores in every performance.  I mean, you just know she's gotta be a Karen IRL, lol.

Edited April 20, 20223 yr by Khan

30 minutes ago, Franko said:

Not the first time that the Sugarbakerverse made light of this. They did the same thing in the episode where they had a crappy wilderness vacation and ended up in the Georgia backcountry.

Bleh. One of many moments of the show I have blocked out. I always hated the men vs women episodes. 

2 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

Always found it odd Bloodworth-Thomason’s other hit show at the time was Evening Shade, which was basically to me a southern version of Newhart with Burt Reynolds.

"Evening Shade" was blessed with an amazing, once-in-a-lifetime cast.  I mean, Burt Reynolds, Charles Durning, Hal Holbrook, Elizabeth Ashley, Ann Wedgeworth, Michael Jeter AND Ossie Davis, all on the same show?  Incredible.

3 minutes ago, Khan said:

I try not to let an actor's political or other beliefs cloud my opinion of them or their work.  However, in Heaton's case, I can't help but feel her conservative beliefs (which certainly clash with mine) literally ooze from her pores in every performance.  I mean, you just know she's gotta be a Karen IRL, lol.

I used to sometimes think I was letting my political biases cloud my view, but after hearing about her and her husband on her last sitcom, I don't anymore.

Just now, DRW50 said:

I always hated the men vs women episodes. 

Again, they operate on the principle that all men think one way, while all women think another; and from my experience, at least, that's just wrong.  Not all men are knuckle-dragging neanderthals, and not all women are bra-burning feminists either. 

It would have been so much more interesting to see at least one of the ladies -- like, Charlene, for example -- challenge Julia's views and argue that maybe the men had a point, and vice-versa.

3 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I used to sometimes think I was letting my political biases cloud my view, but after hearing about her and her husband on her last sitcom, I don't anymore.

Oooh!  What happened on Patty Heaton's last show?  (The one about the housewife and mother who becomes a doctor later in life, right?)

2 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

I suppose Rieffel could qualify for the “Stop Trying to Make…Happen!” category thread lol. I knew she later was on King of Queens but they dropped her character halfway through the first season (sound familiar?) and barely ever mentioned her again.

The worst has to be "Ann Jillian."  There, you have an actress who deserved a hit series being asked to play mother to an actress who didn't.

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

I mean, you just know she's gotta be a Karen IRL, lol.

Hemce why the Middle succeeded lol Heaton’s, err Frankie Heck’s frequent embarrassing public meltdowns and showdowns definitely made her a Karen. 🤣

9 minutes ago, Khan said:

"Evening Shade" was blessed with an amazing, once-in-a-lifetime cast.  I mean, Burt Reynolds, Charles Durning, Hal Holbrook, Elizabeth Ashley, Ann Wedgeworth, Michael Jeter AND Ossie Davis, all on the same show?  Incredible.

It’s unfortunate how underrated the show is as I think it could have been so much more but it didn’t last in spite the overall success. Marilu Henner said years later the show ended partly because of all those salaries to pay and partly because of Burt’s divorce from Loni. 

13 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

It’s unfortunate how underrated the show is as I think it could have been so much more but it didn’t last in spite the overall success.

IA.  "Evening Shade" wasn't a perfect show by any means, but I think it was the closest that Linda Bloodworth-Thomason has ever come to writing and producing a sitcom that's character-driven and literate and genuinely funny, and not just political soapboxing dressed up as comedy.

Tying this in with the purpose of this thread: IIRC, one reason why Loni Anderson took the job on "Nurses" was because of her and Burt's very public, very nasty divorce.  Either she needed the money or she needed the image rehab/career boost, can't remember which, lol.

Edited April 20, 20223 yr by Khan

32 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

LOL she was pretty bad in the 90’s and 00’s, I’m still mad she was the one who did the crappy soap segment & montage for the terrible CBS at 75 special in 2003. God that was awful. 

In the 2000s TV critics acted like Patricia Heaton was Lucille Ball, Mary Tyler Moore and Roseanne rolled into one. I'm fairly certain I am not exaggerating this. The way they went on about her for endless column lengths in print you'd think she invented situation comedy and would reign until the end of broadcast. Everybody Loves Raymond was treated like it was the heir to all the great sitcoms and a legend in its own time. Now no one remembers the show, as far as I can tell anyway, and Heaton is all but a footnote. Baffling.

5 minutes ago, Khan said:

IA.  "Evening Shade" wasn't a perfect show by any means, but I think it was the closest that Linda Bloodworth-Thomason has ever come to writing and producing a sitcom that's character-driven and literate and genuinely funny, and not just political soapboxing dressed up as comedy.

Whatever LBT's flaws, and I'm sure there are many just based on the work I watched back in the day and have been recently, I think it's still a tremendous loss to CBS and to television in general to lose that very unique and singular female creative voice. We talked about it when her Moonves story first came out, how he blackballed her, and how that went hand in hand with the systematic deconstruction of all the female-centric programming at the network, which has had a cascading effect across network TV in general since.

Today sites like Vulture, etc. rush to crown every new diverse or non-male voice that comes through the door as the next big TV/streaming auteur, hoping to remake the balance in record time, but few of them last long or have anything truly original to say. People like the Bloodworth-Thomasons did and they don't come along every day, even though we're constantly breathlessly told now they are right as their 13-episode orders are wrapping up and their shows are already burning out before the ends of seasons 1 or 2. That's not to say there aren't many of those new, more diverse voices who can last and stand the test of time, too. But I do think we should treasure what we have, or had.

Edited April 20, 20223 yr by Vee

3 minutes ago, Vee said:

In the 2000s TV critics acted like Patricia Heaton was Lucille Ball, Mary Tyler Moore and Roseanne rolled into one. I'm fairly certain I am not exaggerating this. 

I'm certain you're not exaggerating it either, lol.  That's certainly how it felt to me at the time as well.  In their eyes, TV comedy belonged to two women: Heaton, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus.  However, the difference between those two women was that the latter was actually funny.  (And I say that as someone who was never a "Seinfeld" fan.)

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

Everybody Loves Raymond was treated like it was the heir to all the great sitcoms and a legend in its own time. Now no one remembers the show, as far as I can tell anyway, and Heaton is all but a footnote. Baffling.

Even when it was still on the air, ELR was a show that was supposed to be so popular, yet hardly anyone you knew actually watched the show or admitted to watching it.  You could hear folks go on and on about "Seinfeld," or "Roseanne," or "Friends," but ELR?  Not a peep.

14 minutes ago, Vee said:

Whatever LBT's flaws, and I'm sure there are many just based on the work I watched back in the day and have been recently, I think it's still a tremendous loss to CBS and to television in general to lose that very unique and singular female creative voice. We talked about it when her Moonves story first came out, how he blackballed her, and how that went hand in hand with the systematic deconstruction of all the female-centric programming at the network, which has had a cascading effect across network TV in general since.

Today sites like Vulture, etc. rush to crown every new diverse or non-male voice that comes through the door as the next big TV/streaming auteur, hoping to remake the balance in record time, but few of them last long or have anything truly original to say. People like the Bloodworth-Thomasons did and they don't come along every day, even though we're constantly breathlessly told now they are right as their 13-episode orders are wrapping up and their shows are already burning out before the ends of seasons 1 or 2. That's not to say there aren't many of those new, more diverse voices who can last and stand the test of time, too. But I do think we should treasure what we have, or had.

Agree!

Believe me, I treasure just about every moment of "Designing Women."  I'm just saying that my love for that show does not blind me to LBT's faults as a writer and as a feminist.

53 minutes ago, Khan said:

Oooh!  What happened on Patty Heaton's last show?  (The one about the housewife and mother who becomes a doctor later in life, right?)

https://www.etonline.com/patricia-heatons-husband-david-hunt-accused-of-inappropriate-touching-by-carols-second-act-writer

I think there may have been more too. 

36 minutes ago, Vee said:

In the 2000s TV critics acted like Patricia Heaton was Lucille Ball, Mary Tyler Moore and Roseanne rolled into one. I'm fairly certain I am not exaggerating this. The way they went on about her for endless column lengths in print you'd think she invented situation comedy and would reign until the end of broadcast. Everybody Loves Raymond was treated like it was the heir to all the great sitcoms and a legend in its own time. Now no one remembers the show, as far as I can tell anyway, and Heaton is all but a footnote. Baffling.

Yes. Outlets like NYT, IIRC, proclaimed it as one of the best sitcoms of all time. I'm a contrarian too often and this just further pushed me away from the show, which I already thought had become unpleasant and unwatchable after 2-3 seasons, and hugely wasted some incredibly talented people like Doris Roberts and Peter Boyle. It has definitely faded into obscurity and aside from The Middle, no one from it seems to have gone on to much success. I saw more praise from people who thought Ray Romano looked like a DILF/GILF around the time of the Irishman press tour than I have for a lot of his work in recent years. Personally I just stick with my better memories of Dr. Katz, Professional Therapist...

30 minutes ago, Khan said:

Tying this in with the purpose of this thread: IIRC, one reason why Loni Anderson took the job on "Nurses" was because of her and Burt's very public, very nasty divorce.  Either she needed the money or she needed the image rehab/career boost, can't remember which, lol.

Thanks Khan, see it’s all connected afterfall! 😏 But yeah Loni was in bad shape following the divorce and guest appearances on the New WKRP (see another failed spin-off) weren’t cutting it. 
 

@VeeYou’re not wrong about the Heaton worship either in the early 00’s I didn’t get it at all. I mainly remember Everyone Loves Raymond the most for Peter Boyle & Doris Roberts because without them the show would have been long DOA. But as @Khan  and @DRW50pointed out Raymond was never a cultural hit the critics thought it was, except for maybe ELR’s sophomoric humor ushered in the era of some really dumb family sitcoms, most of the times featuring a fat man and his skinny wife (King of Queens, Yes Dear, My Wife & Kids, According to Jim, Still Standing, War at Home)

9 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

https://www.etonline.com/patricia-heatons-husband-david-hunt-accused-of-inappropriate-touching-by-carols-second-act-writer

I think there may have been more too.

Wow.  I think I might have read about that some time ago, but I had let it slip from my memory.  Still, wow.

Thanks, @DRW50.

 

6 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

ELR’s sophomoric humor ushered in the era of some really dumb family sitcoms, most of the times featuring a fat man and his skinny wife (King of Queens, Yes Dear, My Wife & Kids, According to Jim, Still Standing, War at Home)

Which became such a subgenre by the time of "Kevin Can Wait" that it led to the AMC dramedy "Kevin Can F**k Himself", which is doing two seasons. I personally don't think that project sounds like a work of heartbreaking genius, or something that needs to be more than a one-off episode on some other show or anthology, but it does have a point to make about that schlock.

9 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

But as @Khan  and @DRW50pointed out Raymond was never a cultural hit the critics thought it was, except for maybe ELR’s sophomoric humor ushered in the era of some really dumb family sitcoms, most of the times featuring a fat man and his skinny wife (King of Queens, Yes Dear, My Wife & Kids, According to Jim, Still Standing, War at Home)

Such a bleak period in the history of US sitcoms, lol.

Just now, Vee said:

Which became such a subgenre by the time of "Kevin Can Wait" that it led to the AMC dramedy "Kevin Can F**k Himself", which is doing two seasons. I personally don't think that project sounds like a work of heartbreaking genius, or something that needs to be more than a one-off episode on some other show or anthology, but it does have a point to make about that schlock.

Agree.

Edited April 20, 20223 yr by Khan