1 hour ago, soapfan770 said:

-Knots Landing two hour finale ending at #10 against repeat Cheers and LA Law. I wonder if Dallas’ finale the week before had given it a boost

I don't think so - ratingswise Knots was pretty stable during season 12. It was really season 13 that killed it. I think it ending up at #10 had more to do with major shows having reruns that week.

It just shows you how little room these soaps had to have a bad season.

1 hour ago, soapfan770 said:

-Knots Landing two hour finale ending at #10 against repeat Cheers and LA Law. I wonder if Dallas’ finale the week before had given it a boost?

Good question!

33 minutes ago, te. said:

I don't think so - ratingswise Knots was pretty stable during season 12. It was really season 13 that killed it. I think it ending up at #10 had more to do with major shows having reruns that week.

It just shows you how little room these soaps had to have a bad season.

@te. My bad my post didn’t upload my reply LOL but S12 was definitely stablized for the most part and had consistently still dipped into the Top #30. There’s two overall season rankings I have seen—Wiki and Primetime Encyclopedia mentions Knots came in at #35 while the TV Ratings Guide has Knots tied at #30th. Not sure which was correct.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by soapfan770

53 minutes ago, Khan said:

Good question!

 

That KL 2-hour finale on 5/9/91 built over the night from 11.6 to 12.6 to 13.0 to 13,9 to 15.3 to 15.7 to 16.0, although it did drop off a little in its last 15 minutes to 15.6.

 Dallas on 5/3/91 has these 15-minute ratings: 20.2, 21.4, 21,9, 22,5, 22.5, 22,1, 22,7, 22.5.

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by JAS0N47

@Soapsuds @soapfan770

Week of May 12, 1991 was Murder, She Wrote season 7 finale, The Skinny According to Nick Culhane. This episode was the season low.

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

@Soapsuds @soapfan770

Week of May 12, 1991 was Murder, She Wrote season 7 finale, The Skinny According to Nick Culhane. This episode was the season low.

"Skinny" was also the last episode produced by series co-creator Peter S. Fischer, and featured the final appearance of Jerry Orbach as private eye Harry McGraw, too. In the next season, David Moessinger ("Quincy," "In the Heat of the Night") would take over as EP/Showrunner, Jessica Fletcher would relocate to NYC "part time" (initially, to teach criminology at Manhattan University, although that career appears to be phased out by the end of S8) and the show itself would rebound in the ratings, rising to #8 after a couple of seasons outside the Top 10, thanks in large part to the end of the "bookend episodes," and Universal revamping the show's production schedule to allow Angela Lansbury adequate time off while still appearing in every episode.

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by Khan

2 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

 

That KL 2-hour finale on 5/9/91 built over the night from 11.6 to 12.6 to 13.0 to 13,9 to 15.3 to 15.7 to 16.0, although it did drop off a little in its last 15 minutes to 15.6.

That's...bizarre to me. True, Knots S12 was stable in the ratings, but the Lechowicks made some serious blunders that year (Val's "brain virus," a heavy-handed storyline about child abuse, Lance Guest's entire storyline) and the latter half of the season was very sloppy from a storytelling standpoint. And the season finale was so out of control - what, with Brian Johnston's sudden disappearance over some sex tape he'd made with Linda Fairgate (?) and the out-of-nowhere paint gun attack perpetrated on Karen just to give Michele Lee something to do (namely, a car chase) and a dramatic (and violent) cliffhanger to close the season out with.

Thanks, @JAS0N47 , for the stats!!

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by Khan

1 hour ago, Khan said:

That's...bizarre to me. True, Knots S12 was stable in the ratings, but the Lechowicks made some serious blunders that year (Val's "brain virus," a heavy-handed storyline about child abuse, Lance Guest's entire storyline) and the latter half of the season was very sloppy from a storytelling standpoint. And the season finale was so out of control - what, with Brian Johnston's sudden disappearance over some sex tape he'd made with Linda Fairgate (?) and the out-of-nowhere paint gun attack perpetrated on Karen just to give Michele Lee something to do (namely, a car chase) and a dramatic (and violent) cliffhanger to close the season out with.

Thanks, @JAS0N47 , for the stats!!

You're welcome! I forgot to mention that the Nielsen books have the finalized ratings. The USA Today charts were published on Wednesdays right after the Nielsen week ended. Figures would still slightly change some up to a few weeks later, when the final books were published. So, if you notice discrepancies between USA Today's numbers (which are the unofficial "final" numbers), the Nielsen books depict the actual final ratings.

For example, the only change in ratings on 5/9/91 between the USA Today chart and Nielsen book is The SImpsons, which had a 12.9 in USA Today but ended with a final rating of 13.0.

Edited 5 hours ago5 hr by JAS0N47

37 minutes ago, Khan said:

That's...bizarre to me. True, Knots S12 was stable in the ratings, but the Lechowicks made some serious blunders that year (Val's "brain virus," a heavy-handed storyline about child abuse, Lance Guest's entire storyline) and the latter half of the season was very sloppy from a storytelling standpoint. And the season finale was so out of control - what, with Brian Johnston's sudden disappearance over some sex tape he'd made with Linda Fairgate (?) and the out-of-nowhere paint gun attack perpetrated on Karen just to give Michele Lee something to do (namely, a car chase) and a dramatic (and violent) cliffhanger to close the season out with.

Thanks, @JAS0N47 , for the stats!!

For me after the first 10 eps of S12 were pretty solid, I was more interested in and entertained by the Sumner Group drama, Paige vs Linda, Nick & Anne shenanigans, Frank and the two-timing teacher than I was about the core four although I did like Mac & Jason. The S12 finale was a bit weird as I’ve read the Lechowicks had real no involvement and already out the door when James Stanley wrote that mess. It’s been said Romano may have already started as Stanley also wrote episode 2 of S13.

Interesting that both Knots and L.A. Law aired high profile milestone episodes in the spring of ‘91 (300th for Knots had Gary & Val remarry, 100th for L.A. Law had Rosalind plummet to her death in an elevator shaft) and both shows would end up taking a serious creative downturn right after. Knots was lucky that the damage was salvaged and the show at least ended on a satisfactory note; NBC abruptly canned L.A. Law just as the show was undergoing its FIFTH revamp in 3 seasons.

3 hours ago, kalbir said:

@Soapsuds @soapfan770

Week of May 12, 1991 was Murder, She Wrote season 7 finale, The Skinny According to Nick Culhane. This episode was the season low.

Interesting. I wonder if it airing on Mother’s Day had anything to do with the lower ratings? I actually do like this episode as @Khan pointed out this was Harry’s last appearance with “That’s all she wrote!” as I’ve read it was written as a possible series finale. I guess the bookend eps had also taken a bit of a toll? I really like Dennis Stanton and he is one of my favorite MSW recurring characters along with Harry and Michael Hagarty, but I will say his excess number of bookend eps in Season 7 kind of felt like a spinoff series occurring on the main show.

Thanks as well @JAS0N47 !!!

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by soapfan770

20 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

I guess the bookend eps had also taken a bit of a toll?

I think MSW was still doing okay, but it was fading a bit before they ended those "bookend episodes," so I imagine that either CBS or Universal or both wouldn't have put up with the concept continuing for TOO much longer.

I'd love to see a Nielsen TV Audience Estimates report (like the ones @JAS0N47 has posted above) on some of those "bookend episodes." I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers were good for the first 15 minutes, then plummeted once viewers realized it wasn't a "Jessica episode," lol.

Thanks again, @JAS0N47 . Especially for your explanation on the difference(s) between those ratings and the ones that USA Today posted. According to those reports, "The Cosby Show" still led the 8:00-8:30 slot, but it's clear "The Simpsons" had taken a chunk of their audience.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I'd love to see a Nielsen TV Audience Estimates report (like the ones @JAS0N47 has posted above) on some of those "bookend episodes." I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers were good for the first 15 minutes, then plummeted once viewers realized it wasn't a "Jessica episode," lol.

Thanks again, @JAS0N47 . Especially for your explanation on the difference(s) between those ratings and the ones that USA Today posted. According to those reports, "The Cosby Show" still led the 8:00-8:30 slot, but it's clear "The Simpsons" had taken a chunk of their audience.

Not sure what series or episodes you are referring to. If you could please give me a specific series and airdate, I can get you those. I just happened across this thread today, haven't been following along much, but thought I'd post a few items to add to the conversation!

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I think MSW was still doing okay, but it was fading a bit before they ended those "bookend episodes," so I imagine that either CBS or Universal or both wouldn't have put up with the concept continuing for TOO much longer.

Also America's Funniest Home Videos had taken away a good portion of the Sunday 8 pm audience. Remember 1989/90 and 1990/91 America's Funniest Home Videos finished ahead of Murder, She Wrote in the seasonal ratings.

8 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

-Knots Landing two hour finale ending at #10

Of note is that this was the last episode of Knots Landing that would finish ahead of a new episode of Murder, She Wrote.

7 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

 

That KL 2-hour finale on 5/9/91 built over the night from 11.6 to 12.6 to 13.0 to 13,9 to 15.3 to 15.7 to 16.0, although it did drop off a little in its last 15 minutes to 15.6.

 Dallas on 5/3/91 has these 15-minute ratings: 20.2, 21.4, 21,9, 22,5, 22.5, 22,1, 22,7, 22.5.

Thanks @JAS0N47 !!

Love this! I've been looking for these breakdown ratings for some time since Ratings Ryan website was taken down. I wish I had saved all the breakdown numbers for all soaps in primetime before Ryan's site disappeared.