4 minutes ago, Franko said:

Mary Jo and Carlene felt more like a sorority's "big" and her "little."

Well, I think that was intentional.  Carlene was conceived as a young, naive girl, who was leaving behind her hometown, her family and her ex-husband to make it in the big city.  (Sort of a cross between Mary Richards and "Coal Miner's Daughter," if you will.)

To me, there was nothing wrong with Julia and Mary Jo taking Carlene under their wing.  My bigger concern was that they were making Alison so OTT in her obnoxiousness that they were forgetting that the other ladies (and the audience) were still supposed to like her in the end.  As much as Suzanne grated on everyone else's nerves, at the end of the day, they still cared deeply for her, and vice-versa.

31 minutes ago, Khan said:

Well, I think that was intentional.  Carlene was conceived as a young, naive girl, who was leaving behind her hometown, her family and her ex-husband to make it in the big city.  (Sort of a cross between Mary Richards and "Coal Miner's Daughter," if you will.)

Ah, of course. Which reminds me of Carlene's attempts at songwriting. (Can't find the clip of the ode to Atlanta.)

31 minutes ago, Khan said:

To me, there was nothing wrong with Julia and Mary Jo taking Carlene under their wing.  My bigger concern was that they were making Alison so OTT in her obnoxiousness that they were forgetting that the other ladies (and the audience) were still supposed to like her in the end.  As much as Suzanne grated on everyone else's nerves, at the end of the day, they still cared deeply for her, and vice-versa.

Poor Julia Duffy. Talk about a no-win situation.

10 hours ago, kalbir said:

More like from the late 1980s, once Dallas fell out of the Top 10.

Agreed. Not too many CBS shows from the 90s are relevant today (as far as I can think of).

Seems like CBS did really well in primetime in the 50s-70s. ABC had the late 70s. I'm not too sure who was the difinitive network in the 80s. NBC had the 90s & early 00s, and Fox did really well in the mid 2000s. 

Edited January 19, 20223 yr by ironlion

5 hours ago, ironlion said:

Seems like CBS did really well in primetime in the 50s-70s. ABC had the late 70s. I'm not too sure who was the difinitive network in the 80s. NBC had the 90s & early 00s, and Fox did really well in the mid 2000s. 

I'd say the '80's were evenly divided between CBS and NBC.  The latter had the "prestige" shows that attracted buzz and won awards, while the former had the older-skewing shows that were audience pleasers nonetheless.

ABC, on the other hand, was really spotty (especially their sitcoms, which tended to be run-of-the-mill) until then-president Brandon Stoddard began pushing for more unique fare, like "The Wonder Years" and "thirtysomething."

12 hours ago, Franko said:

Poor Julia Duffy. Talk about a no-win situation.

Agree.  Not only was she replacing a very popular (and very notorious) star on a show that was wrought with behind-the-scenes drama, she was also still shaking off the memory of her own, very successful character on "Newhart." 

In fact, I think that's why they made Alison so unsympathetic: they were trying to make her different from Suzanne AND from Stephanie, but it was just a total misfire.

Edited January 19, 20223 yr by Khan

Is it weird that I consider the end of Cheers in May 1993 as the official end of the 80's? 🤣

The highest rated finale of the 90's, and the second highest rated finale of all time (second only to MASH). 

 

Edited February 22, 20223 yr by BetterForgotten

Thursday May 20 1993

CBS 7.2/11

 64th Movie Special The Color Purple

FOX 7.3/11

38th The Simpsons 10.1/16

77th America's Most Wanted: Inside the Criminal Mind 4.5/6

ABC 7.9/12

51st Matlock 2hr Special 9.1/14

76th Primetime Live 5.5/8

NBC 36.7/54

3rd Seinfeld 21.3/34

 2nd Cheers-The Last Call 39.6/56

1st Cheers Finale 45.5/64

Thanks! The Cheers finale was the first finale in my lifetime I remember being a big spectacle and cultural moment.

 

 

44. Knots Landing series finale party 10.4/17 

13. Knots Landing series finale  13.9/22

I didn't recall how bad the numbers were.

 

#67. Falcon Crest series finale 8.6/16

Dynasty series finale  10.8/17

#15  Dynasty: The Reunion part 1  16.8/25

#17  Dynasty: The Reunion part 2  15.3/23

10 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

Is it weird that I consider the end of Cheers in May 1993 as the official end of the 80's? 

It's not weird at all.  In a way, the end of "Cheers" DID mark the end for that era of television comedy.  "Seinfeld" was taking off, and "Friends" was just a year away.  No doubt, if "Cheers" had stayed on the air, it would have begun to fade, and look like a relic from another time, very much like what happened to Norman Lear's shows as they moved into the '80's.  As it was, "Frasier" fought the good fight, but even though it lasted as long as its' predecessor, I don't think it was ever as popular; and by the time "Frasier" went off the air, many looked at it as the last gasp of intelligent, well-crafted sitcoms on network TV.

Edited February 22, 20223 yr by Khan

I also think because the writing on Cheers was mostly character centric, it gave the finale a lot of emotional weight. Even though I was a young kid, I cared about most of those characters so the finale had a lot of resonance. 

Earlier in the thread we talked about the numerous time slot hits that were Friends/Seinfeld lead outs.

NBC's Must-See TV Comedy Thursdays: The "Hammock" Shows | The Barrel of Forty (terrencemoss.blogspot.com)

I liked this blogger's comment that NBC could've aired test patterns as Friends/Seinfeld lead outs and they would still finish in the Top 10.

3 hours ago, kalbir said:

Earlier in the thread we talked about the numerous time slot hits that were Friends/Seinfeld lead outs.

NBC's Must-See TV Comedy Thursdays: The "Hammock" Shows | The Barrel of Forty (terrencemoss.blogspot.com)

I liked this blogger's comment that NBC could've aired test patterns as Friends/Seinfeld lead outs and they would still finish in the Top 10.

Thanks for alerting me to that blogspot-a lot of interesting stuff there.

Maybe there just wasn't the quality of sitcoms for NBC to choose from but some of those Thursday comedies were poor. They also tried to do too many comedy nights. Better off focusing on Thurs, Tues and maybe another hour somewhere as they were spread too thin.

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Thanks for alerting me to that blogspot-a lot of interesting stuff there.

Maybe there just wasn't the quality of sitcoms for NBC to choose from but some of those Thursday comedies were poor. 

You're welcome re blog post.

When I started the thread and saw the list of time slot hits that were Friends/Seinfeld lead outs, some of those shows I had no memory of at all.

A Different World is probably the ultimate time slot hit. Five seasons as The Cosby Show lead out, and four of those seasons in the Top 5. A Different World fell out of the Top 10 when The Cosby Show fell out of the Top 10, and it fell out of the Top 30 when it longer had The Cosby Show as its lead in.

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

A Different World is probably the ultimate time slot hit.

I don't like the suggestion that ADW was just another "time slot hit."  To me, that suggests that the show, like most other time slot hits, didn't have any merits of its' own.  Granted, the ratings did fall once "The Cosby Show" was no longer its' lead-in, but other factors -- like NBC's constant anxieties over its' topical content, and the fact that the show had trouble transitioning toward a new crop of Hillman students -- played a part as well.