29 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

There's creating suspense by playing beats and teasing the viewer but Reilly just played the same thing over and over way beyond that.

 

I suppose. I'd still take all of it over today's soaps and writers.

18 hours ago, MichaelGL said:

I've alwas believed that if you take away all the sci-fi stuff and poking fun at themselves, JER's writing of Passions during the first few years were classic soap right down to the forbidden romances, murder mysteries, and social climbing vixens. 

 

The thing I loved about DAYS in the 90's was that they were 100% legit serious and committed to the lunacy of their storylines. There was no tongue-in-cheek wink to the audience. That's what developed in daytime and primetime in the early 2000's (think Desperate Housewives: half-camp, half-serious). But when you have John Black in Salem, USA seeing Marlena in the undergrounds of Paris, France via a miraculous virtual reality goggles (and Stefano can even SEE a hologram of John WATCHING them!), and they play it with all seriousness, props to them. 

 

10 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

But told at a snails pace that reduced dramatic tension to frustrating levels...

 

Yep, and that snails pace would never fly today. 

 

Hell, was Passions still telling storylines at that kind of pace by the time it got axed in 2007? (I honestly don't know; I stopped checking it out long before then) 

 

I remember those painful, painful scenes they had on DAYS around 2005, where you'd have storylines like Mimi/Belle/Shawn/Rex/Phillip where they would literally be spewing out the same dialogue day after day, week after week. 

 

Edited May 31, 20178 yr by Gray Bunny

That's why prime time soaps on the 80s and Days in the 90s worked.  There was over the top stuff...but it was played legit and serious.

 

Ron doesn't get that there has to be a balance to TOT.  Hopefully Sheri A will be given power to reign him in..shoe him how to play the beats...and protect Marlene from Ron's pen.

Ron's camp was borderline offensive. He doesn't get that part of it, he'll certainly mine the past, good or bad. I still think his overall style fits DAYS to a certain degree. I feel slightly more open to his writing knowing Sheri is there. I hope she plays a larger role than Kay seems to be playing at Y&R.

Edited May 31, 20178 yr by KMan101

4 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

Yeah it was frustrating but isn't that the point? He dragged things out too far but soaps used to actually tell a story. Soaps used to tell things at a snails pace.

Then why are people complaining about Y&R 

22 minutes ago, Gray Bunny said:

 

The thing I loved about DAYS in the 90's was that they were 100% legit serious and committed to the lunacy of their storylines. There was no tongue-in-cheek wink to the audience. That's what developed in daytime and primetime in the early 2000's (think Desperate Housewives: half-camp, half-serious). But when you have John Black in Salem, USA seeing Marlena in the undergrounds of Paris, France via a miraculous virtual reality goggles (and Stefano can even SEE a hologram of John WATCHING them!), and they play it with all seriousness, props to them. 

 

 

Yep, and that snails pace would never fly today. 

 

Hell, was Passions still telling storylines at that kind of pace by the time it got axed in 2007? (I honestly don't know; I stopped checking it out long before then) 

 

I remember those painful, painful scenes they had on DAYS around 2005, where you'd have storylines like Mimi/Belle/Shawn/Rex/Phillip where they would literally be spewing out the same dialogue day after day, week after week. 

 

That must explain mostly all the complaints about Y&R

There's a difference between long drawn out pacing of a storyline and what people are criticizing Y&R for. There's not a lot of buildup anymore. Things just ... happen. It's slightly hard to explain. I'd say Y&R has picked things up recently. But you need to feel like you're building towards a resolution, not just using people to fill their guarantees. There tends to be days and weeks without plots or characters and it's hard to be invested in that. Lots of storyline beats gets skipped. Even if JER was frustrating, and boy was he, he played nearly EVERY beat, and then played it again (and again) before giving you a payoff. He made you want it and earn it.

Edited May 31, 20178 yr by KMan101

2 hours ago, KMan101 said:

There's a difference between long drawn out pacing of a storyline and what people are criticizing Y&R for. There's not a lot of buildup anymore. Things just ... happen. It's slightly hard to explain. I'd say Y&R has picked things up recently. But you need to feel like you're building towards a resolution, not just using people to fill their guarantees. There tends to be days and weeks without plots or characters and it's hard to be invested in that. Lots of storyline beats gets skipped. Even if JER was frustrating, and boy was he, he played nearly EVERY beat, and then played it again (and again) before giving you a payoff. He made you want it and earn it.

He did play beats in the beginning of his first run. BUT...IMPO, the second half of his first run and his entire second run were awful. something he never could get.....you can't have characters saying the exact same lines every day, talking to themselves out loud, dumbing down the good guy/girl characters and let the evil ones get away with everything, and not have any payoffs. He did that at Passions I guess....a show that was on for 8 years, and from what I understand, when it went off the air....the show didn't wrap up hardly any SLs. you couldn't do that then, so you really can't do that now. jmo.....

4 minutes ago, Roman said:

He did play beats in the beginning of his first run. BUT...IMPO, the second half of his first run and his entire second run were awful. something he never could get.....you can't have characters saying the exact same lines every day, talking to themselves out loud, dumbing down the good guy/girl characters and let the evil ones get away with everything, and not have any payoffs. He did that at Passions I guess....a show that was on for 8 years, and from what I understand, when it went off the air....the show didn't wrap up hardly any SLs. you couldn't do that then, so you really can't do that now. jmo.....

 

Oh I 100% agree. He was very frustrating and VERY repetitive. I hated a lot of things he did. I'd still take his last few years on Days (but not his second go-around at all) over much of what we get now. It looks like gold compared to the dreck other writers have served us up. But for a while he got it right. And IMHO, he was bitter and checked out of Passions for a long time. Not saying that makes it right ... as a Sheridan and Luis fan I was not a happy camper.

 

It's easy to remember all the bad JER did but he got a lot of it right even if some don't like or agree with some of it.

Edited May 31, 20178 yr by KMan101

Just now, KMan101 said:

 

Oh I 100% agree. He was very frustrating and VERY repetitive. I hated a lot of things he did. I'd still take his last few years on Days (but not his second go-around at all) over much of what we get now. It looks like gold compared to the dreck other writers have served us up. But for a while he got it right. And IMHO, he was bitter and checked out of Passions for a long time. Not saying that makes it right ...

 

It's easy to remember all the bad JER did but he got a lot of it right even if some don't like or agree with some of it.

he had me HOOKED the first half of his first run. such a breath of fresh air. but IA totally......he should get an Oscar compared to how Days is written now.....

His work as part of the HW team on GL and his first couple of years at DAYS were exceptional soap writing/plotting.  Midway through the extended possession storyline is where he began to loose me.  Once we got to Lady in a Cage, it was just so stupid I couldn't keep watching.  It was a camp tone and the stupidity and the pace.

 

At first, there was meat within the goalposts of his plots.  By the time you got to the end of his first tenure, and everything after it, the plot points dragged between endless repetitive scenes and the storylines dragged just to drag.  His people became archetypes, not characters with depth, and he stopped using the moments between his twists to build character and instead they regurgitated to themselves mostly their storyline each day.

 

Compare the Curtis story, or Sami's rape, or the John/Marlena/Roman affair, or the original Gina/Hope story, or even Carly buried alive with Aremid, the Paris story, or even Kristen/Susan etc.  while I had fun with some of those later tales, they were not as tight as the earlier ones.

Edited June 1, 20178 yr by titan1978

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

His work as part of the HW team on GL and his first couple of years at DAYS were exceptional soap writing/plotting.  Midway through the extended possession storyline is where he began to loose me.  Once we got to Lady in a Cage, it was just so stupid I couldn't keep watching.  It was a camp tone and the stupidity and the pace.

 

At first, there was meat within the goalposts of his plots.  By the time you got to the end of his first tenure, and everything after it, the plot points dragged between endless repetitive scenes and the storylines dragged just to drag.  His people became archetypes, not characters with depth, and he stopped using the moments between his twists to build character and instead they regurgitated to themselves mostly their storyline each day.

 

Compare the Curtis story, or Sami's rape, or the John/Marlena/Roman affair, or the original Gina/Hope story, or even Carly buried alive with Aremid, the Paris story, or even Kristen/Susan etc.  while I had fun with some of those later tales, they were not as tight as the earlier ones.

 

Very well said and very much agreed!!

7 hours ago, titan1978 said:

His work as part of the HW team on GL and his first couple of years at DAYS were exceptional soap writing/plotting.  Midway through the extended possession storyline is where he began to loose me.  Once we got to Lady in a Cage, it was just so stupid I couldn't keep watching.  It was a camp tone and the stupidity and the pace.

 

At first, there was meat within the goalposts of his plots.  By the time you got to the end of his first tenure, and everything after it, the plot points dragged between endless repetitive scenes and the storylines dragged just to drag.  His people became archetypes, not characters with depth, and he stopped using the moments between his twists to build character and instead they regurgitated to themselves mostly their storyline each day.

 

Compare the Curtis story, or Sami's rape, or the John/Marlena/Roman affair, or the original Gina/Hope story, or even Carly buried alive with Aremid, the Paris story, or even Kristen/Susan etc.  while I had fun with some of those later tales, they were not as tight as the earlier ones.

This too. 

Sami's morphing into a villianess was a two year process...same with Kristen gradually morphing into a villianess.

12 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Sami's morphing into a villianess was a two year process...same with Kristen gradually morphing into a villianess.

It was.  But when they landed in their roles any characterization ended, and they just spoke to themselves or their henchmen/partners about their plots every day.  His writing clearly changed post possession.  Nearly all the characters got very basic and lost a lot of intelligence and emotional depth.  And he was capable of those traits being included in his show, because he was doing it before then.

 

My opinion of course.  Nielsen loved that era, the ratings were at their peaks when I was not enjoying the show.

21 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

It was.  But when they landed in their roles any characterization ended, and they just spoke to themselves or their henchmen/partners about their plots every day.  His writing clearly changed post possession.  Nearly all the characters got very basic and lost a lot of intelligence and emotional depth.  And he was capable of those traits being included in his show, because he was doing it before then.

 

My opinion of course.  Nielsen loved that era, the ratings were at their peaks when I was not enjoying the show.

This. Right. Here.