Members DRW50 Posted May 8, 2016 Members Share Posted May 8, 2016 She was, but in the comics she and Sharon both debuted around the same time, and they were both characters in their own right. Sharon in the films is more of a cipher, played by a not all that inspiring actress, while Peggy was so popular she even got a TV show. It's no wonder Chris Evans has essentially handwaved the entire relationship with Sharon in interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted May 8, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 8, 2016 I didn't think Sharon in TWS was that interesting but I also didn't think she was a problem. I just don't see her relatively minor role as something worth getting upset about, but fangirls do what they always do. I don't think anyone anticipated the MCU version of Peggy taking off the way it did, but they capitalized on it and will likely continue to do so pending Atwell's availability - she even had flashback stuff in Ant-Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted May 8, 2016 Members Share Posted May 8, 2016 Fangirls, I agree, but her funeral never should have been involved in this, IMO. It's tacky as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted May 8, 2016 Members Share Posted May 8, 2016 I thought her funeral was a nice and poignant moment. It symbolized the end of an era especially as it appears her show may not be picked up. She's like 100 years old. They could have easily not handled her death but Im glad they did and if any film was going to feature it, it had to be Cap's. There were several callbacks to the first film and she was one of them, so this brought closure to that part of the trilogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted May 8, 2016 Members Share Posted May 8, 2016 The funeral is a nice idea. Canoodling with her niece at the funeral...eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted May 9, 2016 Members Share Posted May 9, 2016 I'm kind of surprised that the critics were so in love with this one. I felt it compared very well with Age of Ultron in regards to quality, good but no means great. The narrative was quite thin with most of the emotional leg work being given to the Black Panther, and a secondary villain we only tangentially know from the second Avenger's film. The script has a nice full circle quality to it for Iron Man, but it's really quite bare. I'm starting to think all of these sequels and additions to the Marvel universe are watering down the individual series for all of the Marvel heroes. It's starting to feel more and more like diminishing returns. I know we were supposed to feel for Stark here, but we needed so much more to eventually get to where we needed by the end of the film, and it's not as powerful as his PSTD from the earlier films were in regards to being a powerful motivator for the character. Emotionally, so many of the motivations for the characters don't track here, and we should have had more time invested in each character coming to terms with how they felt with this new directive. I feel something similar happened here with the most recent Superman film. They weren't able to create a plot that centered around the titular character and it wasn't able to make Captain America's journey pivotal to the film for it's central star. Perhaps it's best to just not make an additional sequel for the character, and just hold off and create another Avenger's film, if he isn't seen as being that big of a priority. This wasn't a Captain America film, it felt more and more like a backdrop to set up the next sequel to the Avenger's, and a round about way to set up and launch the Spider Man and Black Panther films. I really wanted to see more of Captain America's struggle and journey, and outside of his friendship with Bucky that's really not here in this film. I'm honestly a bit disappointed, considering how unexpectedly amazing Winter Soldier was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted May 9, 2016 Members Share Posted May 9, 2016 The critics know it's hip and cool to like Marvel. I saw a lot of people saying the movie might as well be called Iron Man IV, and that it ends up being another film on Tony Stark's pity parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted May 9, 2016 Members Share Posted May 9, 2016 I don't think the film is focused enough to be considered a film for either Captain America or Iron Man. Out of the two Tony has the better story, but it's barely there only touched on at the beginning of the film and the end. Black Panther has a nice narrative arc but he is at most a supporting player. Spider Man gets an extended cameo. Both appearances felt like gratuitous backdoor trailers for their own film franchises. The rest of the characters were mostly there just to hold time. We get so little insight into what is happening with them. It wasn't a great showcase for a lot of these characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted May 9, 2016 Members Share Posted May 9, 2016 I kind of disagree and agree with this. The movie served as a sequel to both TWS and AoU. It most definitely was a Captain America film just as much as it was an Avengers one. It was alot more lowkey and not about the big set pieces and world ending threats that you'd expect out of an Avengers film which is why I say it felt more like a 2.5 and not 3. It was without a doubt a Cap film though as he was the central lead protagonist. He shared the spotlight with alot of charcters but the plot revolved around him and its something they've been building up with him over the last 2 movies. I do think TWS was the better film but this is top 3 material just after the first Avengers. Spider-Man's inclusion was forced but BP wasnt. He was very well integrated into the plot. I dont think it would have quite worked as well without him there. It did set up his film but it was an ingenious way to integrate him into this world. I thought all the characters were utilized well. Out of the supporting ones, I felt Falcon, Black Widow, SW, Vision and War Machine all got decent character arcs and we got to see enough insight into them. There wasnt much to show of Hawkeye as he went back to being a family man after the last adventure. Ant-Man is the only one that really didnt serve much of a purpose besides be a number, but this film will have large implications on his solo. Im not sure what you were expecting. This IS a Captain America film. The Russos did exceptional with what little they could with such a large cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted May 9, 2016 Members Share Posted May 9, 2016 I guess, we will just have to disagree. I don't see what Captain America's journey was. Him being anti-government and anti-establishment, and wiling to fight against government corruption was shown in Winter Soldier. So there isn't that much growth on that point, as it's the same color just a shade or two darker. What is Captain America's story outside of Bucky? I don't think he has much of one, as the plot is quite thin on that point, and that's literally all this film is on his side. Freedom from corruption and tyranny and him being Bucky's best friend, which as I mentioned was pretty much the encapsulation of Winter Soldier. I would say Black Panther has a better and more defined arc than Captain does. Captain gets a lot of screen time, some touching moments (Peggy's funeral), and a semi well argued reason for his actions (we shouldn't be beholden to countries and lobbyist) but that's it. I don't think that's enough to make a movie out of. I think it's wrong to say the plot revolves around him, that's more Bucky than anything else. A lot of things in this film were outside of the Captains control and sphere of influence, which is why I felt it was more Avenger's esque, than any of the other Captain America films. The main "villain", is from Age of Ultron. The big hydra threats that never materialize would be more fitting for a Captain America film but they are pretty much treated as non-sequitors. The film isn't horrible, but I consider it to be almost neck and neck with Age Of Ultron in terms of quality, which many were initially disappointed with. I would consider the first avengers and Winter Soldier better films as a whole, and I would place this after the first Iron Man in terms of quality. Additionally I didn't mind Black Panther, but combined with the addition of Spider it felt gratuitous even if his parts were well done. There were just too many characters for a Captain America film, specifically Ant Man, Spider Man and to a lesser extent Black Panther. Two of which aren't that highly regarded or well known. The only one I can agree with you on is maybe Scarlet Witch. She clearly had a story outside of Captain America, that was somewhat constructed and clearly literate, but it is not a fully realized arc and there's not enough progression to really see where it would lead her. Vision seemed more like a minor character for Wanda to play off of, not an entity in and of himself. Falcon, War Machine and Black Widow all played their individual scripted parts to suit the narratives needed for Iron Man and Captain America to get where they needed to be in the greater plot mechanics. Black Widow has the best role of the three, but she is included with War Machine and Falcon as basically being appendages of the main characters. They are not wholes but extensions of the leads to play off of and use to propel the story forward. They were mostly used to add texture, dimensions and different vantage points to Steve and Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted May 9, 2016 Members Share Posted May 9, 2016 but what the problem with that? This was a solo film despite having an ensemble cast. They shouldnt have overshadowed the leads and if they were going to be used, they should serve a purpose in the story and be used to give the leads material to play off of. With the exception of Ant-Man (and a lesser degree Hawkeye), the supporting Avengers all did that Vision was a minor character but I thought his arc was about trying to become human and assimilate in this world as an android. Wanda was also trying to assimilate but for other reasons as she's finally on her own after being held captive and experimented on for so long and she's without her brother. They helped each other out and we saw threads of a future romance which will feel natural if they pick up on it in IW and not forced and out of left field like the BW/Hulk mess from AoU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members quartermainefan Posted May 10, 2016 Members Share Posted May 10, 2016 The original Peggy Carter story in the comics was well done. Steve was dating Sharon when Peggy woke up from a catatonic amnesia type state after 20 years and she just assumed Steve still loved her and had no idea he fell for he sister Sharon. He had to pretend for a while he barely knew Sharon because he didn't want to shock the recently revived Peggy in her fragile emotional/psychological state. I forget how she sort of figured out he was no longer than into her (considering the age difference) and she fell for one of the Howling Commandos (who was black). I believe this may have been the first interracial relationship in comic books, and then the racist Red Skull was not amused, and tortured them both. That said, Sharon Carter was Capt America's true love in the comics so I can see why the movies tried to shoehorn her in despite Peggy taking off. Perhaps they might have capitalized on her popularity and found a way to de-age her also, but if they don't do that you pretty much have to move on to Sharon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted May 10, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2016 If it was me I'd have cast Hayley Atwell as both Peggy and Sharon. Simple. But I don't think Emily VanCamp's done a bad job. I will say Marvel knows when and how to course-correct - as Natalie Portman is reportedly not keen on returning for any future Thor films, the word is that Tessa Thompson (who was amazing in Creed and Dear White People) and her new role will be that of Valkyrie and Thor's new love interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted May 10, 2016 Members Share Posted May 10, 2016 Is she not going to be in The Defenders? I never really cared about The Defenders without Valkyrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted May 10, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 10, 2016 I don't know but I doubt it. Her being Valkyrie is unconfirmed and I may be confusing the characters - the rumor of the moment refers to Thompson's character as "Brunnhilde". I'm more into DD, Jessica, Luke and Iron Fist myself re: the Defenders. And maybe Doctor Strange can cameo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.