Members Skin Posted March 15, 2015 Members Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure what this veiled snide side comment is supposed to mean to me and I don't care enough about the post in question to try and decode it. So if you are going to say something productive and contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way, from here forth please just come out say what you mean, especially when in regards to my post you quoted, otherwise there is no point. Edited March 15, 2015 by Skin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted March 15, 2015 Members Share Posted March 15, 2015 I was trying to be succinct, but sure thing! What I mean is that you came in here ordering us to account for this show and its characters and narrative without your having watched it yourself, and told us all about how you thought it was wildly inappropriate and detrimental to American culture at large. Now that you are watching it, you seem to spend a lot of time still telling us how bad it is and how you're sure it will fail soon enough. To which I say, Empire already has its backlash covered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members All My Shadows Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 Maybe we all know different types of viewers, but almost everyone I know (outside of the online world) is lamenting the fact that the show isn't a weekday soap with five new episodes a week. It's sure to crack 16 or 17 million viewers for the finale (dare I say 20?), and there will be an endless stream of "I can't believe we have to wait X months for it to come back!" This is why I'm such a strong advocate for a full 22-episode season. And I realize I use the term "advocate" as if anything I say will have any bearing on what's decided. The show's shelf life is so not tied to Lucious's prognosis, IMO. "Who will he leave Empire to?" is the major storyline of the season, but they've done so much to develop all of the characters outside of that plot that if/when Lucious dies, there will be story opportunities enough to keep the ship sailing. The characters exist outside of the confines of that central plot, which isn't something that can be said about a lot of recent serialized dramas. Will the dynamics be different if Lucious goes? Absolutely! The dynamics are always different after a major character is gone, but I think the main thing we'd be losing with Lucious's death is the electric chemistry between TH and TJH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ajsp35801 Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 I know you don't need an amen corner but + damn 1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) First off I asked people who have viewed multiple episodes how the show is addressing it's black characters as I have had problems with how other shows have marginalized and stereotyped people of color in various other television series (granted this is a personal issue for me and I can't stand to watch television series that diminish their characters in acting this way). I fail to see how that was a huge problem. You didn't like it so be it, that subject has been addressed and has been dealt with and we have moved forward from it. If you had issues with me bringing up that issue the time for that would have been 20 or so pages ago, not now. Time to move on. Secondly, there are narrative problems and issues within this show that myself and others have noticed regarding pacing, characterization, plotting and story structure. Blinding yourself from that helps no one, least of all the show itself. Blindly yes manning everything does more harm than bringing out solid, well founded, educated and sourced critiques of ways the show can improve it's narrative. While I have been underwhelmed by the last three episodes compared to the earlier ones this season that just points out that the problems have grown with the past three airings, this is not an isolated incident. Notice how all of the critiques of the show have increased when a notable problem persists over a short period of time -- these are things that should be discussed and spoken about, not hidden underneath the rug to pacify fanbois. As to Empire failing, I think it's obvious that this kind of growth is unsustainable a 6.0 rating is unheard of pretty much across the board. Acknowledging that very real fact is realistic thinking not "wishing Empire will fail." Anyone and everyone should pretty much see this coming in the near future. I already spoke about ways in which Empire can minimize their losses (and thus prevent a massive falling that has followed other series re: the sophomore slump), but you are too busy being butt hurt about me being "negative" and being a "hater" or whatever. That does no good to anyone in this thread. So this little hate fest here is not productive towards any kind of discussion. Please expand on how you think Empire can build on it's success for next season or what choices you think will best benefit the series in its second season (just like how I did, before the trite and reductive interruption re: stan goggles), so we can keep the conversation moving. Luscious is the main antagonist of the series, so he is the one that spins the wheels for all of these characters more or less as things stand now. I don't think that Luscious is the be all end all of everything with Empire, but he is the central focus for now and is the character that pushes other characters to do things. Pretty much everyone in the series is reacting to him and his actions. I think a major point for Empire's second season will be can they find something bigger than Luscious that is just as or more compelling than he is, that can work just as well, and supplement that larger change or story into something that will further drive the series. For now Luscious is pretty much it, and they've put a time clock with how long the character will be on the series with his ALS diagnosis, in hindsight I don't think that was a great move considering as things are now with the renewal and being Fox's only big hit this season. Even though I hate Luscious as a character personally, I can objectively see that he is a needed character for plot purposes. Edited March 16, 2015 by Skin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nate4 Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 Predictions for the finale? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ajsp35801 Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 I can't think of one. I like that too. For the first time in as long as I can remember, I'm not fretting over what might happen to my favorite characters or whether the writers will give them their due in airtime or story. I can just enjoy the show. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members All My Shadows Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 I agree with this completely, which is why I think once he's gone, the show will have tons of story to tell. Who are these characters without Lucious? How will they interact? Will they even still exist as a family unit? What role will Cookie play in all of that? This isn't PLL, where it's like, "Okay, we know who A is. Now what?" There is huge potential for a long run long after Lucious is gone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 Nah, I'm good with the other conversations I was having. It's difficult to care to enter into any kind of serious dialogue with you when everything you have to say about the show has always skewed towards bad since before you bothered viewing it. I can (and have) been critical without focusing on the negative to prop up your point of view. You want to do all this work to justify the attitude you had towards the show before you watched it - fine, that's your business. But it's not my problem and I'm not going to engage with it, because I feel that all that energy and prose is being expended towards something intellectually dishonest, which is finding a roundabout path to 'I was right all along.' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 I think we are mostly coming from the same point of view. I am just saying at this point the writers haven't started laying the ground work for that yet. I think that is something they should be preparing for season 2. Yeah none of that is happening. A lot of the problems and issues that I've had while viewing the show have been echoed by other posters, so obviously my issues with the show have been the same issues found in other viewers -- which probably means even outside of my voice there is credence within them for the general audience. I've been candid with what stories have been working on the show (Cookie's introduction, Jamal's coming out), what has been under developed (Andre's entire story), and what stories have been the most meandering (All of Hakeem's). All of my arguments and issues have solid bases, I was more interested in seeing what your core issue was in regards to them, but they have yet to materialize. Outside of that I really don't care about your theory that I am being "dishonest" with how I am viewing the show, and what you believe my personal opinion about the show to be. My opinion is right here for everyone to read. If I didn't feel it, I wouldn't write it, as simple as that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric83 Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 That I'm going to need a drink at 9:59. I know its going to be a doozy. Lee Daniels has already said as much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vee Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 I have addressed many of these things and my thoughts on them before, I just didn't make those posts about you. Because it had nothing to do with you at that time; we didn't all only start thinking critically about the program when you showed up. I'm not going to rehash it all for your edification, my posts are all here to view. Empire is not exactly a perfect TV show, but nonetheless I think you'll find we're all still a lot more interested in watching it than we are in talking about you and the validity of your opinions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nate4 Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 Yes! I didn't know it started at 8, thought it'd start at 9. Now i can get my sleep and my empire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted March 16, 2015 Members Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Again you are not addressing any of the points that I have made in regards to my post you were so aggrieved by, and started this entire discussion. So I don't understand the purpose of this dialogue you've continued to engage in, and seemed to have made personal. If you disagree with what I have posted than say so, this grudge or whatever you have against me is pointless to central part of this thread -- Empire. So if you are just going to make snide remarks and grumble about my postings instead of entering a dialogue about them so be it, that's your issue. This isn't a fan board and your misnomer like comments against me won't change the content of what I have written, or the fact that all of my criticisms have been constructive. All of my points have been made and expressed to push the dialogue about the show further, your hypersensitivity to any perceived criticism you find unfavorable to the show however, clearly isn't and your instance that any person's criticism against the show can be wiped away with a dressed up version of "you aren't a big enough fan" is a pathetic tactic in any conversation, regardless of the content being spoken about. So if you are finished derailing this particular thread, I'd like to get back to the conversation at hand, and in the future if you disagree with my arguments please address them, instead of complaining that I am not positive enough regarding the show in your personal view. Because as I addressed above, I don't care that I don't satisfy your fan quota theory. Edited March 16, 2015 by Skin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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