Empire: Discussion Thread

[NothinButAttitude]

Mine too. I'm nervous for the finale though. I know they are going to go out in a dramatic bang and leave my butt wanting more. We'll have to suffer till September for them to come back.

[Vee]

Most of the first half of HTGAWM before 2015 was filler, IMO. Trying to be episodic. I barely stuck with it for Viola Davis. It improved, but it's still mostly hanging off her incredible performances week after week.

There will be a backlash at some point, I can guarantee it - every popular drama on TV has that now, usually in Season 2. Even if it maintains its quality, it will likely still take heat. The question is how they handle it.

I think I accidentally stumbled on a massive spoiler for the end of the season, and it definitely is a big showstopper and was an obvious potential endpoint if they hadn't been renewed. But if that's true, woo, it's gonna get nuts.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Vee

[Vee]

Danny Strong talks to Vulture.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Vee

[Eric83]

Post it please. (With spoiler tags of course)

[All My Shadows]

I'm wary of comparing Empire with other contemporary serialized shows. So many are built on a season-spanning story that delivers a huge climax but then is followed up with a sophomore season that is aimless. The alternative is (shudder) when they stretch that one never-ending story out over multiple seasons (lookin' at my friends in Montauk by way of Rosewood). Empire feels more like the 80s soaps because they've set up our basic premise and have introduced different stories around that premise without being dependent upon it. "Who will Lucious leave Empire to?" is our major question, but it isn't the driving force behind everything we're seeing or even most of it.

I'm just imagining the sh!tty second season we'd be in for if Lucious was set to die in the S1 finale. The whole season would be spent wondering who'd get control of Empire, they'd give us the answer, then they'd be struggling to put something together for the second season ("Who killed Lucious?") and the third ("Will Andre get caught?").

[Vee]

Yeah, I don't get all these primetime soaps with what are basically a "one-joke" premise. Revenge - she's there to get revenge on this family. Okay, then what? What happens when that's over? Time to get revenge on them again for something else they did, or something? There's a lot of other recent shows like this - HTGAWM has a similar issue, but has sidestepped it for now despite not being great - but I'm blanking on names.

And nah, I'm not posting that, even if it is still a spumor. I stumbled upon it by accident, without intending to, but it's all over the Net now.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Vee

[AllMyDaysatGH]

I met one of the editors on this (Joe Leonard). I need to catch up as I've still only seen the 1st ep I just found out they're ALL on Hulu! TGIS...

[Vanguardian]

I'm down with lengthier seasons as well. I think this show needs it, to be honest. The Raven Symone issue was just one of several missteps in this first season. I thought Cuba Gooding, Jr. could have been used for more than just one episode since he had a significant tie to both Cookie and Lucious. Cookie turning informant and her orchestrating a murder should've been threads with further exploration. Even Bunkie's murder was ridiculously mishandled. I still think a new rival family coinciding with the Lyons should be the next phase for season 2. Dueling families whose lives all become intertwined is classic and always fun to watch.

[Vee]

Both Bunky's murder and Cookie's hit are almost certainly not gone for good, IMO. They're just not being frontloaded right now. No one knows what Cookie did yet. I don't get people who say they need to dwell on that every single episode.

[Vanguardian]

This isn't about dwelling on Cookie's actions every single episode. In how many places has it been said that Empire is a soap opera? Well, most soap operas tend to pick up immediately where they left off, especially when it comes to seemingly significant plot points. Here, Cookie's actions were treated as if they never happened. No remorse on her part. No sense of guilt on her part. No sense that she was rattled by what she'd done.

[Vee]

I think we watch different soap operas.

[Skin]

I think the problems have been established pretty well regarding the shows pacing. Raven appearing for 15 seconds at the end of the episode and then disappearing as if she never existed, is in the same vein as Cookie ordering a hit and nothing coming of it for multiple episode stretches. The conclusion to some arcs hasn't been very satisfying because enough beats aren't being played fully, this will sooner or later damage the story telling when these plots do pop back up and they have to tackle them again (if they even bring them back up). Stories need to be weaved properly and that includes ignoring significant plot developments for weeks at a time.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Skin

[Vee]

Cookie ordering a hit didn't happen in a vacuum. Both that and Bunky's murder are things to set up to blow later down the line, like any soap opera.

As for Raven, I can live with it since she's back. It may be down to her availability.

[slick jones]

Just going to say what Vee did^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Literally everything. All soaps leave threads dangling(Ron leaves whole spools) it's how soaps are. The best murder mysteries, among other stories, always leave something on the backburner for the reveal. Sometimes you just have to be patient, the writers don't write anything they don't plan on using. With only 13 episodes, there's only so much time per episode to tell things, but I will bet money everything rolls out in the season finale, along with some new threads for next year!

[Skin]

As a poster said up-thread awhile ago, the show doesn't need to give episodic updates regarding the various moving plots, but it would be good to see some aspects of the story expanded into the next episode and bleed and breath into different aspects of the narrative. There should be some kind of underlying tension in response to the arcs or story threads in question, and the story should evolve and grow organically. Not just pop up at random moments. I like what another poster said in regards to the hit plot, Cookie should be stressing out in regard to the hit she planned and we should see aspects of that story being impacted within her over the next few episodes. A few hint or clues about how she's feeling or a few shots establishing a rival faction finding out and coming against her would be fine. Again, it's fine that these things are unresolved or dangling, but they shouldn't be ignored only to have them pop up four or five episodes later. Again, that's bad pacing.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Skin