14 minutes ago, JoeCool said:

I don't think it would have killed All My Children. Maybe beat it not kill.

1986 Y&R moved past All My Children for 2nd. 

All My Children had tough head-to-head competition in 1986: second half of Y&R, first half of Marland era As the World Turns, supercouple era Days.

 

Edited September 4, 20232 yr by kalbir

1 hour ago, kalbir said:

October 8, 1984: ABC moves Ryan's Hope to noon ET and Loving to 12:30 pm ET.

Seems to have given Loving a boost, but ended up hurting RH even further. 

21 minutes ago, kalbir said:

@JoeCool CBS's June 8, 1981 move of Y&R to 12:30 pm ET lead to it becoming a killer show that destroyed every soap in its path: Ryan's Hope, Loving, The City, Port Charles on ABC. The Doctors, Search for Tomorrow, Generations on NBC.

Yes, but AMC was in a very different place than those other soaps. I feel YR and AMC would have given each other stiff competition- in fact AMC might have prevented YR from recuperating and growing as quickly especially around that time. 

16 minutes ago, kalbir said:

1986 Y&R moved past All My Children for 2nd. 

All My Children had tough head-to-head competition in 1986: second half of Y&R, first half of Marland era As the World Turns, supercouple era Days.

 

Exactly. Getting rid of RH would have been better for ABC. Restless moved past AMC because of the advantage it had at 12:30PM to 1PM. Eliminate that advantage and it would have been a different ballgame entirely. AMC is always understimated, but It had one of the toughest time slots. And horrible lead-ins. Restless had the Price is Right. What did AMC have Ryan's Hope? Loving?

10 minutes ago, GLATWT88 said:

Seems to have given Loving a boost, but ended up hurting RH even further. 

Yes, but AMC was in a very different place than those other soaps. I feel YR and AMC would have given each other stiff competition- in fact AMC might have prevented YR from recuperating and growing as quickly especially around that time. 

You are so right. In the head to head competition in the early 80s between the two soaps, AMC and Restless were neck in neck even with Restless' expansion to 60 minutes.

Edited September 4, 20232 yr by JoeCool

4 hours ago, JoeCool said:

Ryan's Hope? Loving?

Ryan's Hope run was 13 1/2 years. Loving run was 12 years. They were ABC's longest-running soaps other than their big three.

8 hours ago, kalbir said:

Ryan's Hope run was 13 1/2 years. Loving run was 12 years. They were ABC's longest-running soaps other than their big three.

RH should have been canceled before 1989. ABC owned it so it had no incentive. Loving should have been canned by the late 80s but Agnes Nixon had clout at ABC. RH's ratings were horrible its last 7 years and should have been canned. ABC made 2 mistakes regarding them.

Well, as a fan, I'm personally glad they gave Ryan's Hope a few more years. 😉 1984-86 was a dire period, but some of my favorite material aired in the 80s—1983 and 1987-89 in particular were strong.

Even if it never attained the heights of AMC/OLTL/GH, it did well for them for a few years, and without a soap as a lead-in for most of that time. Plus it's my understanding that the demos were solid (I think there's a post early in this thread where AMC and it were at the top of the key demos in 1977-78). Once the ratings began slipping at the end of 1982, I can understand why they gave it some time to recover before effectively issuing it a death warrant with the move to noon. AMC was a behemoth on its own, and I doubt a stronger lead-in would have materially changed its performance unless it was something on the level of General Hospital.

Launching Loving when they did has never made sense to me—I find it hard to believe that they thought it could succeed in a time slot that hadn't seen a successful soap in years. Plus, based on the fact that it never had a consistent creative direction at any point in its 12 year run, it doesn't seem like they believed in the material, either. At least with Ryan's Hope they fully owned the show and had an incentive to keep it on until it no longer generated enough profit. Was there ever any genuine fear that Agnes Nixon would leave the network if they didn't greenlight a third show?

15 minutes ago, Sean said:

Well, as a fan, I'm personally glad they gave Ryan's Hope a few more years. 😉 1984-86 was a dire period, but some of my favorite material aired in the 80s—1983 and 1987-89 in particular were strong.

Even if it never attained the heights of AMC/OLTL/GH, it did well for them for a few years, and without a soap as a lead-in for most of that time. Plus it's my understanding that the demos were solid (I think there's a post early in this thread where AMC and it were at the top of the key demos in 1977-78). Once the ratings began slipping at the end of 1982, I can understand why they gave it some time to recover before effectively issuing it a death warrant with the move to noon. AMC was a behemoth on its own, and I doubt a stronger lead-in would have materially changed its performance unless it was something on the level of General Hospital.

Launching Loving when they did has never made sense to me—I find it hard to believe that they thought it could succeed in a time slot that hadn't seen a successful soap in years. Plus, based on the fact that it never had a consistent creative direction at any point in its 12 year run, it doesn't seem like they believed in the material, either. At least with Ryan's Hope they fully owned the show and had an incentive to keep it on until it no longer generated enough profit. Was there ever any genuine fear that Agnes Nixon would leave the network if they didn't greenlight a third show?

When RH debuted in 1975, it was given AMC's time slot at 1PM and AMC went to 12:30PM. Agnes Nixon sold AMC and OLTL to ABC in January 1975. Agnes fought hard against the time slot change. As a result, AMC went down and then recovered in 1977, reclaimed the 1PM slot and went to an 1 hour.

 

Agnes never would have left. Agnes wanted Loving at 1:30 PM. AMC from 12:30 to 1:30PM. ABC was not keen on the idea. RH did well in the demos in the late 70s and then went down. ABC wanted to make RH an hour and Claire refused. RH could have been 12PM to 1PM.

ABC eventually bough RH and then Loving from Nixon. By 1984, RH should have been canceled. Loving should have never made it to the 1990s. ABC was very eager for Loving but it never took off because of its first morning slot and then later too intense competition from Restless.

Nixon blamed ABC for Loving and she was right. AMC was moved for RH and Nixon wanted AMC moved for Loving. ABC did want another show from Nixon after Loving but she was over it. ABC paid Nixon over $15M for AMC and OLTL in 1975. ABC paid Nixon $50M for a consulting contract in the mid 80s to early 1990s. Nixon made her money and felt content.

Edited September 5, 20232 yr by JoeCool

1 hour ago, Sean said:

At least with Ryan's Hope they fully owned the show and had an incentive to keep it on until it no longer generated enough profit.

Are you aware that Claire Labine regretted selling it to them & repeatedly asked them to sell it back to her?

Of course, Agnes is said to have regretted selling to them also but she never did anything with that sentiment. 

The independent owner situation was just too difficult, which is why almost everyone sold. 

10 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Are you aware that Claire Labine regretted selling it to them & repeatedly asked them to sell it back to her?

Of course, Agnes is said to have regretted selling to them also but she never did anything with that sentiment. 

The independent owner situation was just too difficult, which is why almost everyone sold. 

Nixon never expressed regret publicly but it was too much for her and her husband. But Agnes was very angry when AMC was moved for RH. 

Labine regretted it and wanted RH back but that ship sailed.

ABC paid Agnes $50 million as a consultant? I find that a little hard to believe.

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 11/12/84-11/16/84 & 11/19/84-11/23/84:

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 11/26/84-11/30/84 & 12/3/84-12/7/84:

 

 

19 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

ABC paid Agnes $50 million as a consultant? I find that a little hard to believe.

Yep. Over a period of 10 to 15 years. It has been reported. Not hard to believe. Michael Eisner was in charge of Disney then and loved Agnes. Eisner was daytime VP who greenlit AMC. Capital Cities/ABC also had Agnes under a consulting contract.  Disney bought ABC.

Agnes made millions from ABC after she sold AMC and OLTL. Agnes is the one who recommended Glory Monty as producer for GH. Case closed on the millions. Fred Silverman asked Agnes about how to save GH. Agnes also recommeded Douglas Marland for GH. Silverman also loved Agnes.

Ellen Holly mentioned Agnes'  huge contract for consulting in her book.

Edited September 5, 20232 yr by JoeCool

RH seemed to be doing very well, but wasn’t there a lot of interference from the network with recasts and plot? Between that and the time slot change it just seemed it was ranked on purpose to be kept on so much longer than it needed to. 
 

Loving seemed pointless in general.

The biggest shame to me is EDGE being canceled when it had equal ratings on a thirty percent less clearance rate, that’s a tragedy. 

What years did ABC really trust in Agnes? If she contributed to recommending on how to save GH, and ABC was at the top of its game, what happened in the mid-80s and how did ABC end up in such a mess by the late-80s and early-90s (OLTL and GH were dreadful and RH officially canceled, AMC had a rough patch but was better than ever by ‘91)

December 7, 1984  Gregg Marx first episode as Tom Hughes.

Also Tom King & Millie Taggert were no longer HWs of ATWT. Head writers now were Susan Bedsow Horgan & Cynthia Benjamin and the new EP was Robert Calhoun.

 

Edited September 5, 20232 yr by Soapsuds

1 hour ago, JoeCool said:

Agnes made millions from ABC after she sold AMC and OLTL. Agnes is the one who recommended Glory Monty as producer for GH. Case closed on the millions. Fred Silverman asked Agnes about how to save GH. Agnes also recommeded Douglas Marland for GH. Silverman also loved Agnes.

Interesting, I always wondered if Agnes had a hand with any sort of GH related BTS stuff. Given her track record with ABC I wonder if GH ever considered her for a HW position.

Edited September 5, 20232 yr by YRfan23