Old-School AMCers: Was Natalie a Threat to Erica's Popularity?

[SFK]

having a presence in PV helped highlight Nat's vulnerability.

I'm AMC biased, but ever since I saw the movie back in '89, I thought Soapdish's Montanna Morehead and Celeste Talbert were more than a little inspired by Natalie and Erica.

[slick jones]

Does anyone know anything about the character Virgil Mason, Natalie's patient that left her a lot of money when he died. His son contested the will. This gave Natalie a little more stature at the time. I'm sure Erica had plenty to say about it. I know the characters' son contested the will. Any idea if he was on the show or just an offscreen character? If he was on, does anyone know who played him or his son? I think it was around 88 or '89, and I had a five month class at 1:00 in college at the time

[Steve]

I'd say it was an overexaggeration, though I loved the Natalie/Erica/Jeremy triangle because Natalie was such a perfect foe for Erica. I hated how bland they made her later on with Trevor.

I hope someone posts those scenes on YouTube because that episode still stands out in my mind too!

IIRC, we never saw him but Ruth & Natalie had mentioned him at the hospital for a few months before he died (as in Ruth asking Nat to check on him). It seemed like we knew the name well before they said he passed away.

[ellabelle]

My understanding is that the whole un-doing of Erica and Travis's first marriage was not a popular storyline, and that it didn't pick up story-wise for Erica in terms of fan love until the Jack/Erica/Travis triangle in which she dated both men on alternating nights. There used to be an Oprah episode of Erica and her men on YouTube, circa 1990 or so, and I have never seen a group of women go insane like they did when Walt Willey came on stage. I mean, some of those women looked like they were literally about to lose their minds.

For whatever reason, the show reached a point at which I think they just didn't know what to do with Natalie. They'd softened her to the point that she no longer resembled the woman she'd been before, and the pairing with Trevor was wildly popular for some reason - I didn't like it, but I guess a lot of others did. I think it could have been much better for Natalie if she'd stayed paired to Dimitri instead of being stuck back with Trevor, but reportedly Michael Nader didn't like that storyline and wanted a more high profile pairing. I can't remember where I read that, but it was basically that Nader had been this big primetime star, and he'd been promised something bigger than Natalie in a well, and he was tired of it and was ready to move onto an Erica story (which of course proved to be wildly popular with Erica fans). In any case, the rumors I've all heard were that Kiberd and Collins didn't get along and reached a point at which they couldn't work together any longer, and AMC decided to keep Kiberd because he got more fan mail. The Natalie recast was AWFUL and rather than recast her again, TPTB killed her off. Janet was recast with Robin Mattson, and I've heard rumors that when Collins was asked to come back as crazy Janet, the absence of Kiberd was one stipulation she had. IDK how true that is though, but I remember fans being disappointed that Janet had killed Trevor.

[ghfan89]

I don't have the scenes of Ross raping Natalie or Julie finding out about it, but I do have some of the rape trial. I do have the scenes of Natalie killing Silver and some of the Virgil stuff. I also have some of the Erica story with Dr. Lazarre and Goldie. If anyone's interested in any of this, let me know.

[VirginiaHamilton]

By the sound of it, it looks like I missed the most dynamic years of Natalie when I'd started tuning in.

I am, however, glad that I started this topic because it's spurred me to dive into an old-school AMC marathon starring Natalie. Thanks to all that have answered my questions (though I reserve the right to bombard anyone with more )

[DRW50]

ghfan89 if you could put any of that on Youtube it would be great.

In that week of late 1987 episodes, there's this sad scene where Natalie and her mother go to the boutique, and Enid and some other gossip are belittling her, and Myrtle asks them to leave. Then Myrtle makes it clear to Natalie that she doesn't support her either. It's so dispiriting, because you get the sense that for all the talk later on from Janet about how Natalie had always had everything, Natalie had actually been alone and isolated for most of her life.

I think in those episodes one of the only people there for her was Pat Baxter.

[VirginiaHamilton]

Per Erica & Jack / Travis. This was before my time so please feel free to correct me if I've got this wrong, but I thought that Erica & Travis ended (with him getting custody of Bianca) because Erica was running around on him with his brother, Jack. I hadn't known that they were over prior to her meeting Jack.

I first met Jack when he was playing Captain-Save-a-Chick with that Debbie Downer, Laurel, so other than him being a nice guy, I didn't quite get the fervor when he and Erica circled one another (besides, I was and still am dedicated to Erica & Dimitri) until much later when I'd found out that their pairing was a pretty big deal.

As for Natalie and Uncle Porkchop, not knowing her prior history pre-him, I liked the fact that he was not like the other guys in PC. He wasn't as suave as the other guys in town, yet he had a big heart and I loved that the show and many characters (included Natalie) appreciated that in him. (And yes, I was one of those who was upset that he'd died at the hands of Janet, much as I love her.)

I'm going to have to watch Natalie & Dimitri again (my memory is truly fuzzy and there are missing chunks of their story that I hadn't seen the first time around) to determine whether they should've continued on as a thing (though I'll admit that I'll be carrying along my biased love for Erica/Dimitri with me, which is why I can't be [too] put off that MN requested a "higher profile love interest").

[DRW50]

I think Erica and Travis were on the rocks because he'd faked his kidnapping and hidden it from her. Or something. They got back together but she was also attracted to Jack. I think she wanted to leave him for Jack, because he'd had sex with his ex, Barbara, to give their daughter a bone marrow match, but for Bianca's sake she reconciled with him. Then she started the affair with Jack again, and lost everything.

[VirginiaHamilton]

OK, this I didn't know. I was always under the assumption (based on retrospectives) that Travis was this loving and faithful guy that selfish Erica took for granted and it all came to bite her in the ass when she hooked up with his brother. I didn't know even he'd slept with Barbara (again, I assumed that Erica didn't like her because she was being her insecurely catty self and Barbara didn't have time for that crap).

Man, do I need to educate myself on 80s AMC.

[ellabelle]

I would LOVE to see all of these! I have a bunch of 1999 episodes I'm in the processing of clipping and sharing, but I don't have anything from the 80s.

[SFK]

Even as a youngster, I had a strong sense that "Natalie and Dimitri" was set up to be a temporary s/l and she'd ultimately find her way back to Trevor. Dimitri was actually a little creepy to me and you knew he was hiding something.

Maybe it was the beard, but MN's first scene with the lantern/flashlight peering down the well, I didn't immediately recognize Dex Dexter. Of course it made more sense that he'd be paired with the Alexis of daytime (who he'd worked with before in a telefilm). I'm not convinced that AMC didn't have a Dimitri/Erica pairing in their sites from jump street. I wasn't thinking of words like "chemistry" back then, but Nader and Lucci certainly had more of it than Nader and Collins.

[ellabelle]

Noooo.... Their first marriage ended because Travis was going to have himself kidnapped for insurance money to save his business from a takeover from Adam, but the guy turned on Travis and kidnapped baby Bianca, and when they got her back, Erica ended up fleeing with Bianca and living in Sea City, NJ or somewhere and working as a waitress to live the 'simple' life or some BS like that, and she fell for this guy, not realizing he was the same guy who'd been involved in the kidnapping scam with Travis. Travis saved Erica and Bianca when that guy (i think his name was Dave Anders) came after Erica. Erica and Travis were set to go back to Pine Valley separately, with Erica going first and Travis coming behind after he took care of some stuff, but he was mugged and hit on the head and had amnesia and thought he was still married to Barbara - this was when they had a brief fling and Molly was conceived.

Erica and Travis were done, and she started seeing Jack (this was around the time she found her not-dead father). Jack had asked her to marry him, and she said yes. Bianca got SORAS'd from baby to about 4 years old, and she got Reyes Syndrome and was very ill but recovered and wanted her parents together. Barbara had married Tom and they were passing Molly off as Tom's daughter, and Erica was dating both Travis and Jack, trying to decide between the two of them - she literally dated them on alternating nights. Why they put up with this is beyond me. Erica chose Travis because it was what Bianca wanted and because she didn't want to deprive her daughter of the family SHE didn't have as a child.

After Travis and Erica remarried, Barbara admitted that Molly was his because Molly had leukemia, and she wanted Travis and Erica to allow Bianca to be tested as a possible bone marrow donor match. Erica agreed to stay with Travis and even wanted another baby, but he was busy with Molly. When Bianca wasn't a match, Travis and Barbara decided to make another baby, but then changed their minds about the clinic and made one the old-fashioned way. When Erica found out, she consoled herself in Jack's arms and swore she was done with Travis. Had she left then, she probably wouldn't have lost custody, but she didn't want to break Bianca's heart, so she dragged it out and pretended everything was fine with the marriage while still seeing Jack. Then Bianca witnessed them kiss, she set fire to her dollhouse, Travis ended up catching Jack and Erica in bed, and he sued for custody and won. So, there you have it.

The triangle with Jack and Travis was very popular, and then when Barbara and Tom and Molly were added it exploded into a huge storyline.

[ellabelle]

I got the impression that Michael had been promised a storyline with Susan as well.

Oh definitely re: their chemistry! There was a scene after Angelique had been revealed, when Erica was still stuck in her marriage to Adam, and she'd smuggled a camera into Wildwind and was trying to get video of Angelique for something, probably not something good because Dimitri was trying to take over Enchantment at the time, and Erica was out for blood. But of course she got caught and as an angry Dimitri was dragging her out of Wildwind, he kind of pushed her up against the door and threatened her, saying that if she ever did anything like that again, he was going to nail her hide to the wall. She looks at him, and he's looking at her, and you could practically SEE the sparks. I think I was 14 the first time I saw that, and it blew me away. THAT was the moment I stopped caring if she reunited with Jack and began to hope she'd fall for Dimitri. When that clip found its way onto YouTube, I watched it again and felt the same exact way. They were phenomenal together, and I hate that they never reunited.

[DRW50]

Thanks for the rundown. The story confuses me. I watched some long clips someone put on Youtube last year, that go through most of Erica's story in that period, but I haven't really seen much of the earlier material, especially that weird Sea City period.

I wish I could see all of 88 AMC, not because it's necessarily good, just to see what the strike did.